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Most Comprehensive Jalen Sucks Thread

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Landry's Tooth, May 11, 2023.

  1. Landry's Tooth

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    Just to share the methodology... i search all drafts back to 2011. I looked at PG, SG, and combos (1/2 or 2/3) who were taken in the top 10 and were rookies at the same age as Jalen Green (19). I kept to top 10 so we would generally be looking at players going onto bad teams as rookies.

    I threw out Exum because he missed a season. Here are the remaining 12:

    Lamelo Ball
    RJ Barrett
    Bradley Beal
    Luka Doncic
    Anthony Edwards
    Markell Fultz
    Kyrie Irving
    Enmanuel Mudiay
    Jamal Murray
    Deanglo Russell
    Coby White

    With Green their average draft position was 3.33. So Green was in the upper portion of those players in terms of where he was drafted.

    Out of those 12 players, here's how Jalen Green ranks among his peers:

    Fg%: 7th
    3pt%: 9th
    2pt%: 4th
    Reb/36: 12th
    Assts/36: 10th
    Steals/36: 12th
    Blocks/36: 10th
    Turnover/36: 6th
    Fouls committed/36: 1st
    Points/36: 4th
    FGA/36: 5th
    Points/FGA: 3rd

    So when you look at the numbers he is being efficient scoring the ball relative to the others on the list. That can be a little misleading. He is efficient at 2s, but he's relying on free throw attempts to get there which don't show up as fga for calculations but still count as possessions.

    He's 5th in ft% but 2nd in ft attempts.

    So the scoring can be summarized as ok or acceptable.

    The problem he has is when you look at everything else. He's near the bottom in assists, rebounds, blocks, and steals... the fact he barely fouls anyone tells me that's an effort issue.

    He's basically a one dimensional player who has a profile closer to Lou Williams than someone like Jamal Murray even...

    For a 2nd overall pick and top option on offense, that's a failure.

    I think his future with us is as a 6th man if any... I would be surprised if he's a max player at this pace but if Evan Turner can get paid you never know...

    This is his last chance to show something other than scoring. If he responds to better coaching maybe there's more here but I'm skeptical.
     
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Oh this is gonna be interesting.

    DD
     
  3. Le$$

    Le$$ Member

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  4. Sen89

    Sen89 Member

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    Are you comparing his stats to the first 2 seasons of those guys? If not this is pointless.
     
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  5. TimDuncanDonaut

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  6. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    first use of the new acronym

    D.I.M.W.I.T.?
     
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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  8. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    Green luckily isn’t really on the hot seat until after next season. He could be mediocre this coming year and the Rockets will still take up his team option.

    It’s after next summer that Green will either be a franchise piece or a trade chip. If he’s not in talks to be an All-star by then we’ll know the ship has sailed
     
    anthony59237 and Landry's Tooth like this.
  9. gfab-babyboi

    gfab-babyboi Contributing Member
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    5 of those guys are PGs that you comparing a SG too - other 5 are SGs who you should of compared him to and Luka is more a SF

    So take all that gibberish you typed and do a correct comparison and try again
     
  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Out of that group I would say LaMelo, Kyrie and Luka all had better first two years in the NBA. Ant and Green pretty much identical and the rest were worse.

    Is that a fair assessment Landry?
     
  11. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    It is not Carl Landry’s tooth.
     
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  12. OremLK

    OremLK Member

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    Problem is I just don't believe steals/blocks are a great way of measuring defensive contributions, especially for a backcourt player. Perimeter defense is as much or more about getting good contests, and some guys who get a ton of steals do it by gambling and giving up lots of easy shots.

    Which isn't to say Green is a good defender. He's not. But he's shown flashes of being good at the point of attack, and I think he can be better than a number of the guys on that list as an overall defensive player if he puts in the effort. I want to see him take a major step forward on the defensive end this season.

    I actually think it's encouraging that he's been average to above average at all scoring-related categories on that list of mostly very good offensive players.
     
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  13. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    May I please get his blocks steals rebounds assists per game (not 36) compared against shooting guards? Will you also let me know the PG they played with for each of those first two seasons.

    thanks
     
  14. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    I mean the thread title is misleading...... OP is saying besides defensive issues and his scoring he is not an All-round player yet.

    Lou Williams did not suck.
     
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  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    @Landry's Tooth post here does show insight on to the mind of a Jalen hater though.

    It shows a basic lack of context while using metrics like fg% and per 36 without any explanation of any time period like are we comparing careers or first two seasons etc to prove a point that a player we drafted that we as fans are supposed to support sucks.

    So are you even a Rocket fan if you are willing to use such shitty analysis to paint a narrative against one of our own?
     
  16. CantStopJG24

    CantStopJG24 Member

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    Ant had a better 2nd year than Jalen by a mile.

    He shot better, defended the best players and he contributed to winning and made the playoffs. The feeling after that 2nd year was that Ant has arrived and he's a future superstar. We haven't gotten that feeling from Jalen yet. I can see it happening after this season.
     
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  17. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Is 21 ppg 3.8 apg on 56% true shooting with significantly better spacing and pg play around him really a significantly better season than 22 ppg 3.7 apg on 54% ts with significantly worse spacing and teammates around with significantly worse pg play? You understand it's harder to be efficient on a worse roster?

    You can say it's easier to have higher volume on a worse roster but you also have to admit it's harder to be efficient on a worse roster.
     
  18. Landry's Tooth

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    Well, Green was the primary ball handler about equal with KPJ. So he should have fewer assists than a pure PG, but then those players at PG are smaller on average so he should have more rebounds but doesn't relative.

    Luka is a combo 2/3 as much as he handles the ball. He was second in the league in usage.

    Green last year was 16th in usage. Only 5 players above him are point guards so it seems lile a weak argument.
     
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  19. Scarface

    Scarface Supremely FocASSed
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    “Did it merit writing individual(idiotic) thread”
    “Dummy I meant wheat in toaster”
    “Did I mention what I thought”
    “Dalembert’s intensity makes winning impossible. Thoughts?”
     
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  20. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    you sir, are a natural at this game
     
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