The parts Iput in bold are really troubling. http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,71044,00.html JERUSALEM — A Palestinian homicide bomber blew himself up on a bus packed with students and Israeli soldiers Thursday morning, killing 11 people, including four children. Dozens of others were hurt. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon convened his security Cabinet for an emergency meeting soon afterward. The bomber was identified as Nael Abu Hilail, 23, from Bethlehem. There was speculation that Israel might retaliate by reoccupying the West Bank town from which it withdrew in August. The murderer's father, Azmi, said he was pleased with his son. "Our religion says we are proud of him until the day of resurrection," Abu Hilail said. "This is a challenge to the Zionist enemies." Several of Nael Abu Hilail's friends said he was a supporter of the Islamic Jihad group. However, the Al Jazeera and Al Manar TV stations reported that Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of the Islamic militant Hamas group, claimed responsibility. Despite efforts by Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority and the Egyptian government to halt attacks until Israel's Jan. 28 election, both Hamas and Islamic Jihad have vowed to continue. Ismail Abu Shanab, a leader of the Islamic militant Hamas group, said that "the Palestinian people are determined to continue the resistance until we liberate our land." There have been scores of bombings and shootings of Israeli civilians since the current Palestinian uprising began in September 2000, generally strengthening Israel's conservative parties. President Bush condemned the bombing, but said it remained the United States' goal to see two independent states — Israel and Palestine — living side-by-side in peace. The killer, wearing a bomb belt around his waist, set off the explosives in the middle of the bus at about 7:10 a.m. as it stopped in Jerusalem's residential Kiryat Menachem neighborhood, police said. Maor Kimche, 15, said he had just boarded the bus when the blast went off. "Suddenly, it was black and smoky. There were people on the floor. Everything was bloody. There was glass everywhere and body parts," Kimche said. The 10th grader, who was on his way to school in downtown Jerusalem, jumped out of a bus window and was scooped up by a taxi driver who took him to nearby Hadassah Hospital. Kimche was lightly injured in the left leg. The youngster said the bus was crowded with high school students, soldiers and elderly passengers. He said he'd ride the bus again once he was well. "How else will I get to school?" he asked. The blast blew out the bus windows. A torso that had fallen over the side of the bus was covered with a white-and-blue checkered blanket. Sandwiches and schoolbooks lay scattered in the street. As rescue workers removed the dead from the bus, the bodies were placed in black plastic bags that were numbered and laid out in a row along a sidewalk. Raanan Gissin, an adviser to Sharon, said the attack was proof that even efforts to bring about a limited truce and withdraw from some Palestinian areas appeared futile. "All our efforts to hand over areas .... and all the talk about a possible cease-fire, that was all window dressing because on the ground there was a continuous effort to carry out as many terrorist activities" as possible, Gissin said. Gissin accused the Palestinian Authority of assisting the attackers. Ghassan Khatib, the Palestinian labor minister, held Israel responsible, saying Sharon's strikes against militants provoked more Palestinian attacks. "Sharon and his policies are responsible for the continuation of violence," he said. The Israeli army has enforced stringent travel restrictions on Palestinians in the past 26 months of fighting, and has reoccupied most West Bank towns in an attempt to stop the attacks. Israel's range of responses is restricted by the possibility of a U.S. strike against Iraq. Several Israeli hardline leaders have called for Arafat's expulsion in retaliation for bombings, but such a step is sharply opposed by Washington, which is eager to maintain the support of moderate Arab governments. In other developments, senior Palestinian officials welcomed a call by Israel's new opposition leader Amram Mitzna to restart peace talks, saying they believed they could reach a peace settlement with Israel if the dovish ex-general is elected prime minister. But Arafat and some aides stopped short of a clear endorsement, apparently for fear of hurting Mitzna's chances in the upcoming elections. Mitzna said he was encouraged by the response. "If the biggest of our enemies is congratulating me on my election, perhaps that is a sign that in the future there will be someone with whom to talk and something to talk about," he told Israel Radio. But Sharon's Likud Party is the heavy favorite in the Jan. 28 general election. In the West Bank and Gaza Strip, violence continued. Israeli tanks entered three villages in southern Gaza next to the border with Israel and searched houses early Thursday, residents said. The military said only that an operation was in progress there. No casualties were reported.
I saw that this AM on CNN. I don't know what is worse...the fact that this is still happeneing or the fact that every time another suicide bombing is reported, I am so immune to it that I don't even think twice. This blows!
Refman, these attacks are horrible and so is the common Israeli response of killing innocent bystanders in order to kill nearby alleged gunmen. Don't you think that Israel would be safer if they allowed UN peacekeepers and decided to follow UN resolutions that would bring them some international support ,other than the US, and give them more defensible borders from a military standpoint? The guy running against Sharon should ask the Israeli public "Are you better off now then when you first elected Sharon two plus years ago?" Betwen the bombings and the poor economy, how could anyone say "yes". The fear of Israelis is understandable given the Holocaust and the fact that by annexing a hostile population esentially their same size, who is very determined to be free, they have created a monster. However, some times you just have to overcome your panic , if you are to get out of your problems. .
So we blame the attacked rather than the attackers? That's the same crappy logic as saying that a woman got raped because she was "asking for it." There is no amount of unfairness the Israeli government could do to make it acceptable to blow up a bus, leaving schoolbooks and children's lunches strew all over the street mixed with the body parts of the dead.
I don't wanna speak for glynch, but I don't think anyone around here wants to place more blame on the Israelis than the Palestinians. I perceive a desire to recognize it as one, ugly, horrific, bloody, two-way street, with culpability on both sides. I think a peace-keeping force from the outside is absolutely the only way to go now, and even that would be incredibly complicated.
Ref, I concur. The problem is that there is no clear battlefield here. I would erect a wall around Israel, kick out all palastinians from Israel, and let them build their own economy in Palastine. Sometimes walls work. DaDakota
A police officer says to some women: "Don't be foolish. When you go out at night, stay in well lit neighborhoods with lots of law abiding people out and about. Try not to walk alone. This will help you to be avoid being attacked and raped." By your logic this police officer would merely be blaming the victim and no one shoud heed his "crappy logic".
Ref...this guy doesn't get it...iti will be as much of a dead end argument as the Augusta thread...especially once FBlade, Azadre and the other guy I always argue with about this stuff get here
It would have been a big help if <b>all parties</b> involved had respected & followed <b>all</b> UN votes and resolutions in regards to Israel - Palestine.
being smart and taking precautions is one thing...but no one ASKS for violence...particularly against children. Refman said it well...There is no amount of unfairness the Israeli government could do to make it acceptable to blow up a bus, leaving schoolbooks and children's lunches strew all over the street mixed with the body parts of the dead.
I agree with you 100% that no amount of unfairness by the Israeli governement and forces justifies this sort of action. Irregardless to whether a woman walks naked next to a crack house, she doesn't deserve anything that happens to her. That same logic is what I disagree with Isreali forces over in regards to the if you are related to a suicide bomber your house gets torn down or if you are a child in the same building as a terrorist and Israel firebombs the building, then its your fault because you are related or in the same building. There is no excuse for murder from either side. But leveling buildings to kill one individual is going to create a huge amount of animosity that plants the seeds for future suicide bombers. The Palestinians have been an occupied people since 1967, so for 33 years they have not had independence. That is 33 years in which Israel had a chance to make a Palestinian state and the people have waited and waited. I feel they are hopeless and feel they will never have a home, a life or freedom and are willing to die for that. I far from agree with suicide bombings, I think its horrible and it is the gravest sin in Islam to take your own life, but violence begets violence, and Sharon's administration can atest to that.
Hey at least I can scrutinize both sides, unlike your narrow vision and 100% devotion to Israeli policies. Its ironic that I, who constantly berate the Arab world politics as well as Israel is called biased, yet your one sidedness is the standard.
DaDakota: Fair enough... and I might even agree. But what happens to the settlements? The settlements ruined the last peace agreement (by making the state that would have been created untenable)...
F.D. Khan A logical question for you. If it is wrong for the relatives of suicide bombers to have their house <i>removed</i> because they happen to be related to the suicide bomber (presuming they are innocent of involvement),.................. then why do survivor families accept the <i>payments</i> offered by foreign government/agencies (Iraq, Saudi charity groups etc)? For the same act (suicide bombing) by a relative, money (good thing) from others is acceptable while the house destruction (bad thing) is not.
I could care less about Israeli policies to be honest (at least for the most part)....my argument is that if there were no suicide bombers and terrorists attacks on Israel, then Israel woudn't be killing Palestinians in retaliation. Get it? I didn't think so. If it were the Israelis that were the suicide bombers, I can guarantee you that I would be all for the retaliation of the Palestinians. I certainly wouldn't be trying to justify an attack on innocent civilains by saying "well, look what you did to us after we blew up a school bus...you guys are wrong too"..but that isn't the case.
I agree. These peoples clearly need to be separated. They are way past the point of being able to resolve this peacefully and live together inter-mixed. In fact, Palestinian civilians are the people who end up becoming members of these terrorist organizations...many times with their family's supporting them. If the Palestinian leaders are unable and/or unwilling to control their own people, then the hell with them. I wouldn't mind at all if Arafat and his PA were driven out of the area. They should probably be arrested or killed because they don't do a damn thing. What is their purpose besides responding in the media to every damn suicide bombing or terrorist operation by claiming it is all Israel's fault? The Palestinians haven't done a damn thing to prove they have a right to their own state. The militant groups would rather continue thinking they can destroy Israel. If I had to live in Israel under that kind of fear of suicide attacks and so forth, then I would be way past the point of discussing any kind of peace. Every time Israel makes a move to back down and leave areas to the PA to control, the terrorists exploit that and strike with the PA just playing the blame game. If you can't turn over land to the PA without expecting to be attacked from it, then what are you going to do? I'll tell you what your going to do...your going to continue to occupy that land taking pre-emptive action to stop terrorist acts and oversee operations at destroying terrorist operations. You put anyone in Israel's place and I guarantee you their doing the same thing. Anyone who says otherwise is a flat out liar. If the Palestinians and militants could just agree to stop their violent ways, then they would find a much easier road to peace and their own state. As it stands now, they are not even close. It is clear that all the militant groups have their own agendas that don't include backing down. So, remind me to post in a decade to see where it's at then. I imagine it will just be more of the same.
So the Palestinians were not an "occupied people" when Jorday "occupied" the land they call "Palestine" from 1948-1967? Your bias is decorated in neon lights, my friend.
