More Torch Relay Embarrassment: North Koreans' turn

i think we should lock down the border, so they can't sneak in at first place. now they complain we don't let more of them come in? some people just complain about everything. it's time to build another damn wall.

 

"Politics? On my leg of the Olympic torch relay? Get out."

 

They were out in front of the Chinese Consulate here in Houston yesterday as well. Normally, it is the Falun Gong people camped out, but there was a big group with what looked like an expensively made banner (much nicer than the Falun Gong one) and several police standing around doing 'crowd control'.

If I lived in North Korea, I sure as hell would be trying to sneak across the border into China or anywhere else I could find to run.

 

ya, but you can't just let freaking millions of people sneak across the border. we are going to have a refugee crisis. they need to figure out how to solve their own problem. we got enough problems already. sigh... we don't need another problem.

 

Well, it seems to work here in the USA. I understand that China doesn't want them, but it would be nice if they could explore options besides deporting them back to their death. I bet South Korea would love to take them, but of course that would piss off the North.

From what I understand of the siutuation, I don't particularly blame China, but I think it is a bad situation all around.

To some degree I can understand and sympathise with this position. But China is kind of linked to North Korea more so than other neighbors, like South Korea or Vietnam. So to some degree I see China having propped up NK for the last 50 years. Not so much lately, but much of the problems in the country are a direct result of Chinese support back in the day.

So, in some ways, I would say 'You break it, you buy it', like with the USA in Iraq.

 

there is another border they can cross. too bad it also happens to be one of the most militarized area in the world. i think US and North Korea should just forget about ego and work out a long term peace deal. that way, North Korea won't be isolated anymore. South and North can travel back and forth and so on. more economic development will open up for North. let's face it, their president isn't going anymore in a long time.

and China still ships over tons of supplies to North (food, oil). i don't understand why they feed their soldiers when their people have nothing to eat. it's not like there is going to another war. i guess i don't really know what's going on inside, it's from what i hear. i mean Vietnam followed China and opened up. it looks like Cuba is doing to same soon. the old communist system is not going to work if people want modernization.

also, it's not exactly the same situation as in US. people cross the border here and work some jobs that Americans don't want to take. but in China, there are enough people who are willing to work all kinds of jobs. so they are not going to have any opportunities for jobs. that opens all kinds of bad situation for themselves. gangs and thugs are going to sell them and exploit them. North Korea is a sovereign nation, we can't just accept everyone that sneaks in without proper paper works you know.

 

Why shouldn't China ask South Korea if they will take them? It seems like an excellent suggestion to me and one I haven't really considered before.



Impeach the Stepford President.

 

South Korea won't accept them. if China allows that to happen, that will basically encourage millions of people to sneak in. and then we have to ship them to South Korea. South Korea can't take that many people. they don't want them. i hear that a lot South Koreans discriminate against folks from North. those who made it there, are doing ****ty jobs. life ain't that much better in South.

 

Do you have some links? I really haven't read much about the South's attitude towards people from the North. Other than those who migrated there during the war, I doubt there are that many from the North in South Korea. It's one of the most heavily fortified borders in the world. You can't pee across the fence without getting photographed, arrested, or shot at.



Impeach the Stepford President.

 

I don't think it's quite fair to link the torch relay to Nazis.

That's even more specious than touting the Dalai Lama's well-documented Nazi ties.

That being said, the PRC's support of North Korea makes me wonder. Do they basically continue to do this so they have a "bargaining chip"? Is it the shared Communist legacy? Anti-"Western" mindset? I dunno.

Maybe someone more versed in these matters can post.

 

i don't have links at the moment. maybe someone else can help out. but it's a fact that folks from North have an accent. folks from the South can tell very easily. given the upbring are way different. no friends, family, education, connection, it shouldn't be surprising that they will be working the lowest jobs available to them.

 

Well Nazi Germany did invent the action as a political tool to tie themselves (racial and imperial-wise) to Classical Greece.

 

I'm almost positive that the South would accept them. They are insanely accommodating to people of North Korea. I think the problem would be that it would create a diplomatic problem between China and North Korea.

As far as demilitarizing the border, the South has been trying to get the North to do that since forever. It is not the South keeping people of the North out with their big wall. It is the North that has all the physical impediments in place to prevent people from escaping south. Probably if China accepted people from the North and sent them to South Korea, North Korea would erect stricter border security measures.

Edit:

Maybe you are right that they wouldn't take them.

From Wikipedia:

[rquoter]

Reward
In 1962, the government of South Korea introduced the "Special law on the protection of defectors from the North" which, after revision in 1978, remained effective until 1993. According to the law, every defector was eligible for a generous aid package. After their arrival in the South, defectors would receive an allowance. The size of this allowance depended on the category to which the particular defector belonged (there were three such categories). The category was determined by the defector’s political and intelligence value. Apart from this allowance, defectors who delivered especially valuable intelligence or equipment were given large additional rewards. Prior to 1997 the payments had been fixed in gold bullion, not in South Korean won – in attempts to counter ingrained distrust about the reliability of paper money.

The state provided defectors with good apartments that became their personal property without them having to pay anything. Anyone who wished to study was granted the right to enter a university of his or her choice. Military officers were allowed to continue their service in the South Korean military where they were given the same rank that they had held in the North Korean army. For a period of time after their arrival defectors were also provided with personal bodyguards.

Recently, South Korea has passed controversial new measures intended to slow the flow of asylum seekers as it has become worried that a growing number of North Koreans crossing the Yalu and Tumen rivers into China will soon seek refuge in the South.

The regulations tighten defector screening processes and slash the amount of money given to each refugee from $28,000 to $10,000. South Korean officials say the new rules are intended to prevent ethnic Koreans living in China from entering the South, as well as stop North Koreans with criminal records from gaining entry.


Resettlement
Hanawon opened on July 8, 1999, and is the government resettlement center for North Korean defectors. It is nestled in the South Korean countryside, in Anseong, Gyeonggi Province, about three hours south of Seoul. Originally built to accommodate around 200 inmates for a 3 month resettlement program, the government extended the center in 2002 to double its original size and cut the program from three months to two months because of the increase in the number of North Korean defectors per year. In 2004, to mark the fifth anniversary of the program, a second facility opened south of Seoul. Hanawon can now feed, house, and train 400 people at one time.

At Hanawon, the training curriculum is focused on three main goals: easing the socioeconomic and psychological anxiety of North Korean defectors; overcoming the barriers of cultural heterogeneity; and offering practical training for earning a livelihood in the South.

Hanawon imposes heavy restrictions on the travel of North Korean defectors because of security concerns. In addition, security is tight with barbed wire, security guards, and cameras. The threat of kidnap or physical attacks against individual defectors by North Korean agents is ever-present.

Upon completion of the Hanawon program, defectors find their own homes with a government subsidy. When Hanawon first opened North Koreans were originally offered ₩36 million per person to resettle with ₩540,000 monthly afterward. Now they receive ₩20 million to resettle and ₩320,000 monthly.

[/rquoter]

 

I don't know why it would be different than the former West Germany integrating those of what was East Germany. Yes, there have been problems, but overall, it was a joyous occasion when it happened and a positive for the country. This wouldn't be nearly as difficult. It would be a trickle compared to a full integration of the two halves of Korea.



Impeach the Stepford President.

 

I think you know what I mean. The Chinese did not resurrect the torch relay out of some respect for Nazi tradition. I'm no Olympic historian, but I believe that every country since 1936 (?) has had a torch relay - including the "progressive" West.

To be fair - don't you think they would have gotten lots of crap if they decided not to have a torch relay?

Oddly - enough, this very well might be the last year of it. There will probably be some sort of protest next time around that will make it more of a hassle than ever.

Like you, I would have no problems with that.

 

see my post above. every hosting nation has probably done it since Munich. China did not resurrect it out of some sort of Nazi adoration. that's all I'm saying. by stressing the Nazi aspect of it this particular year (i'm pretty sure there was no such protestation in 2004), people are trying to paint the Chinese as Nazi-sympathizers. Which has as much real meat to it as those who bring up the Dalai Lama's documented Nazi associations.

 

Unfortunately, China is not going to treat all the north korean like royalties. China already has a population crisis, and they have systems that disallow people from the country to live and work in the city because its just so damn populated. Do you honestly think that we have the capacity to take in more refugees? At least not until they sort out the system.

BEFORE YOU GO COMPLAINING ABOUT CHINA, Australia has in the last few years created detention centers where they put refugees who fled from thier native countries in caged prisons. Australia is as "western" as it gets right? It has created so much news here people are now immune from seeing good folks who come to australia to find a new way of life stuck behind fences like prisoners. This while the government officials are trying to work out whether these people are "actually real refugees", a process that goes on for years.

So compared to these refugees, I think the North Koreans have nothing to complain.

As another poster mentioned, sending them to south korea is a no go zone, wont work politically, and you cant compare north and south korea to east and west germany. Its just not the same.

 

I have stopped responding to SamFisher about his Nazi references, You just cant argue with someone who is not logical and who thinks every pro chinese person is a "bot" even though they grew up outside of china and have thier own view on things.