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[More of W's Mongolian Cluster ...] Turkey Signals It's Prepared to Enter Iraq

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by No Worries, Jul 19, 2006.

  1. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    It has been one of those days ...

    Turkey Signals It's Prepared to Enter Iraq
    By LOUIS MEIXLER , 07.18.2006, 02:25 PM

    Turkish officials signaled Tuesday they are prepared to send the army into northern Iraq if U.S. and Iraqi forces do not take steps to combat Turkish Kurdish guerrillas there - a move that could put Turkey on a collision course with the United States.

    Turkey is facing increasing domestic pressure to act after 15 soldiers, police and guards were killed fighting the guerrillas in southeastern Turkey in the past week.

    "The government is really in a bind," said Seyfi Tashan, director of the Foreign Policy Institute at Bilkent University in Ankara. "On the one hand, they don't want things to break down with the United States. On the other hand, the public is crying for action."

    Diplomats and experts cautioned the increasingly aggressive Turkish statements were likely aimed at calming public anger and pressing the U.S. and Iraq to act against the Turkish Kurdish guerrillas. But they also said Turkish politicians and military officers could act if nothing is done.


    U.S. officials in Turkey and Washington were in contact with Turkish officials and military commanders to press them to work with Washington to combat the guerrillas and not to act alone, a Western diplomat said, speaking on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the subject.

    Turkey's NTV television and Hurriyet newspaper reported the government has told the military to draw up plans for a push into northern Iraq and to advise on the possibilities such an incursion could lead to a clash with Iraqi Kurds or U.S. troops.

    Any operation was unlikely before the end of August, when the current military chief of staff is replaced by an officer widely regarded as a hard-liner, NTV said.

    The Western diplomat said the Turkish military long has had plans for fighting guerrillas in northern Iraq. These range from limited artillery and airstrikes on guerrilla bases, to attacks by commando forces and a broader ground offensive.

    American officials, including Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, have repeatedly warned Turkey against entering northern Iraq, one of the few stable areas of the country.

    U.S. Ambassador Ross Wilson said Turkish, Iraqi and U.S. cooperation is a "more sensible way to go forward than perhaps to ... try to do it unilaterally."

    Nechirvan Barzani, prime minister of the Kurdistan regional government in northern Iraq, appeared to be addressing Turkish concerns when he said Tuesday that Iraqi Kurds "won't allow anyone to harm our neighbors by using our territory."

    But he also said the problem with the guerrillas "cannot be solved through military means alone," Turkey's DHA news agency reported.

    Turkey considers the guerrillas terrorists and has refused to talk with them.


    Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan appeared to confirm reports that the military was ordered to draft plans when he said Tuesday: "We know how to take care of (terrorism) on our own... Our competent units are making preparations and will continue to do so."

    Erdogan's spokesman, Akif Beki, refused to comment, but referred to a statement Monday by government spokesman Cemil Cicek. Cicek called on Iraqi and U.S. forces to take stronger action against the rebels and warned that if they did not, "Turkey is going to use its international rights until the very end."

    Officials reported no unusual military activity in the border regions.

    A Turkish push into northern Iraq could also threaten relations with European Union countries, which have been pressing Turkey to improve rights for minority Kurds.

    The Turkish Kurdish guerrillas are mostly based in the Qandil mountains, an area 50 miles from the Turkish border with Iran. From Iraq, the guerrillas infiltrate southeastern Turkey to stage attacks.

    Turkey has long had some 2,000 troops in northern Iraq near the border monitoring the area. But if Turkey sent in military units they would have to travel through territory controlled by Iraqi Kurds.

    "I don't think it is Turkey's desire to stage an intervention in northern Iraq," said Ilter Turan, professor of international relations at Istanbul Bilgi University. Turkey "is simply trying to draw attention to the fact that it is an untenable position."

    Copyright 2006 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed
     
  2. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    This is when a strong US president would flatly tell Turkey that entering Iraq in force would not be allowed, and would be resisted by the United States. Look at Cypress. If Turkey is allowed to grab a chunk of Iraq now, they could simply stay there, for years.



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Actually the best party to do this would be Europe: You get involved in Iraq, your EU membership application goes in the trash can.

    But then again you can't isolate Turkey too much given its one of the few friends in the neighborhoood.
     
  4. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    Looks like somebody got the DNC email talking points.
     
  5. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    It a effing AP news article, not an astroturf emailer.

    Dream on.
     
  6. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Excellent point about the EU, and much preferred. I'm well aware that we need to keep Turkey as a friend and sometimes ally. We also need to keep them out of Iraq in a major way. They would love to get their hands on the oil in the northern region of the country, and crush the Kurds while they're at it, IMO. Your right... the EU should take the lead on this.



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  7. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    My vote is for NATO :)
     
  8. gwayneco

    gwayneco Contributing Member

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    It was a reference to all your threads today.

    Keep D & D Civil for Jihadists.
     
  9. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    [​IMG]
     
  10. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Yeah I know I am getting carried away today :p I am not actually much of a thread starter, maybe once a week or so. But every now or then, I have one of those days ...
     
  11. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    From people I've spoken to there, they feel their EU membership chances are already in the trash can anyways.....or were doomed from the start at least
     
  12. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Funny, that's pretty much a similar situation to the Israel-Hezbollah fiasco going on now...I await President Bush to say that "Turkey has the right to defend itself, every nation has the right to defend herself from attacks."

    Turkey has a legitimate case to intervene in northern Iraq and strike back at the Kurdish guerillas who are using northern Iraq as a 'safe haven' from which to launch attacks. Why is the U.S. allowing terrorists to move about freely in Iraq? Is it because the Kurds have been playing nice with us so far?

    Come on guys, no double standards...
     
  13. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Liberal blog agrees with my choice of words. Go figure ;)

    Cluster****
    by kos
    Wed Jul 19, 2006 at 10:18:09 AM PDT

    So we've got Israel attacking Lebanon. Israel attacking Palestine. Hezbollah attacking Israel. Palestinians attacking Israel. Israel threatening to attack Syria and Iran. Iran meddling in Iraq. The US meddling in Iraq. Lots of terrorists and insurgents targetting the US. The US threatening Iran. Sunnis attacking Shiites. Shiites attacking Sunnis. The US and NATO fighting a resurgant Taliban in Afghanistan. Kurds attacking Turks.

    And now, as predicted back when this whole mess was brewing, Turkey threatens to invade Iraq.

    Why does anyone still give credence to the neocon jokers who helped create this mess?

    Update: Think Tank "intellectual" neocons are now pissed at the Bush Administration for making a mess of our foreign policy. But, um, things are a mess because Bush listened to them when first elected. They want blame, they should look in the mirror.

    They voted for the guy. Then they told him what to do.
     
  14. losttexan

    losttexan Member

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    I agree 100%, was just thinking the same thing.
     
  15. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    22 years from now, with the country and world at peace, the discredited authoritarian wing of the Republican Party will find another cipher to run for President and the first order of business will be to right the wrongs of Bush's policy because "it was really a great policy and those Dems just pinned us down at home so we couldn't act with authority when needed... just look what Turkey did while the Dems were asking us questions and the Liberal media wasn't reporting the good news from Iraq... we now need to reinvade Iraq, Syria, and Iran just to make up for this terrible affront to our national honor."
     
  16. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    I am really more or less trying to expose the blatant double standard not only in regards to US foreign policy, but also with some posters in the D&D.

    Turkey can make the same exact claim as Israel has in regards to Hezbollah. If you support Israel's premise for its offensive in Lebanon, you must support Turkey's interests in crushing these terrorists who're using northern Iraq as their base of operations.

    That's the kind of 'slippery slope' that the world will be dealing with in the foreseeable future. Any country in the world could use the premise of "fighting terrorists and those who harbor them" as a pretext for war. According to the Bush Doctrine and the Israeli Doctrine, Turkey is perfectly within its own rights to pursue and conduct operations aimed at rooting out terrorists who threaten it on regular basis.
     
  17. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Yup, you're exactly right.

    Although I will say this, jsut like the Israeli-Lebanon affair there are no saints here, only sinners. The PKK are nasty terrorists but the Turks aren't exactly benign rulers either.
     
  18. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    Might deserve its own thread but not today ;) ...

    Kristol Suggests People of Iran Would Embrace U.S. Attack, Triggering Regime Change

    KRISTOL: We have to be ready to use military force against Iran, if it comes to that. Think what this crisis would be like given what we now know about the Islamic Republic of Iran, its regime, its recklessness, its close, close ties to terrorist groups. Think what the world wore would be like with an Iran with nuclear weapons. This is a very interesting moment in that respect. You know? We are in a way lucky that Iran has revealed its aggression, its recklessness, its terror ties before they succeeded in becoming a nuclear power. We have to stop them from getting nuclear weapons. We can try diplomacy. I am not hopeful about that. We have to be ready to use force.

    QUESTION: You know, the down side, though, you know very well, to all of that being that we’re involved in Iraq and Afganistan. Also that Iran is much different than Iraq. It’s huge and more formidable.

    KRISTOL: It is, but also the Iranian people dislike their regime. I think they would be – the right use of targeted military force — but especially if political pressure before we use military force – could cause them to reconsider whether they really want to have this regime in power. There are even moderates – they are not wonderful people — but people in the government itself who are probably nervous about Ahmadinejad’s recklessness.

    This is why standing up to Iran right now is so important. They’re overreached. They and Hezbollah have recklessly overreached. They got cocky. This is the moment to set them back. I think a setback to Hezbollah could trigger changes in Iran. People can say, wait a second, what is Ahmadinejad doing to us. We’re alone. The Arab world is even against us. The Muslim world is against us. Let’s reconsider this reckless path that we’re on.
     
  19. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    'Benign' they're not, their history speaks for itself.

    I was merely trying to draw a comparison so people can see the implications of our policies, not to mention Israel's policies.

    What works for Israel works for Turkey...go get 'em Turkey! ;)
     
  20. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    LOL, what year is this 2002? From the same people who brought you "Iraq would welcome us with flowers and greet us with liberators"

    Kristol conveniently ignores the fact that, while the hardliners and sharia aren't popular, Iranian nationalism and in particular the Iranian nuclear program is quite popular with many Iranians of all stripes.

    There's no better way to rally support for the hardliners than what he proposes. Sometimes you just have to wonder how stupid people can be. Can we ban the words "intellectual" and "think tank" from anything associated with Billy Kristol from now on?
     

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