Moochie v. Damon

Maybe we should do a poll about whether this thread title is correct? Should it be

Moochie v. Damon or
Brown v. Damon

I don't know. When I see a guard run two pick in rolls in a row and can't get the throw over the head of the other guard to find the roller...snatched right out of mid air for embarrassing fastbreaks the other way...I'm thinking maybe this guy isn't a point guard. Maybe I'm just weird that way. Maybe I should give this NBA vet another chance. Or....maybe there is NBA tape of him doing this some more, and that's why Dallas released him.

Damon has a shot. I was rooting for him. I was sitting there going, damn...and it wasn't like he was careless with the ball, or limited like Colson (according to verse). But after his embarrassing attempt at the pnr, I no longer view him as a point guard to run our offense. Maybe he is a point guard somewhere else like playing with Alonzo or Shaq, but he isn't here. Our PG position must do more that spot up and shoot. And Oscar Torres is a much, much better backup SG, where Damon generated a lot of his stats last year.

btw: Damon looked pretty short to me.

I also don't understand the logical connect about saving money like we should never give Francis's backup a stable contract...let's just make it one big revolving door of minimum contracts....oh, and don't ever use a draft pick on a PG either; that would be a waste. Just sign a new one when the vet asks for a raise. DREAMer, add up our PG and SG position..all 4 of them SF/Moochie and CM/Torres. Add the salaries up. Make Francis a max player even. Now compare that to any other PG/SG or PG/SF tandem out there...where one of them is a franchise-type player, and the other is a 35+ mpg veteran player. I think we will find that we are saving money, when you include the two backups and the two starters. The money being saved for all 4 players is found not only in Mobley, but also in Torres. The lesson learned is not to make Francis's backup a revolving door of minimum salaries, but to make Mobley's backup one, because Francis can backup Mobley. Trying to make them both minimum salaries forever is too risky for my blood.

 

I think you're right, crispee. It seems like the Rockets are trying to make the guard position as stable as possible and build the team around that foundation. Have a static set of guards will help Rudy and the coaches to build a basic set of offensive plays that the team can rely on. It appears that the revolving door position will be the center position. Unless Houston can sign a solid free agent center in the next few years, we may have to be satisfied with Cato-esque type centers (assuming Cato doesn't become half the player he's supposed to be).

 

Who cares about who is a better value for the dollar its not my money and we are going to be over the cap for the next 10 years anyway. Just pick the best one (which is Moochie) and lets roll.

 

Dreamer,
You shouldn't have posted those numbers. They tell it all. End of story. Also, money is not usually the reason for any NBA decision.
My money is on Moochie.

 

You know, I've been getting off track from my broken record of expousing the merits of our 3 guards attack. That is the main reason we have Moochie at those dollars.

But to answer your question...first, you didn't really answer mine. I said look at two important backcourt positions, to include the backups.

That said, I concede. You win the salary argument. I still don't see the logical connect, and I still see us saving money at those two positions with 4 quality guys. We dumped Shandon for Torres didn't we. Don't zero in on Moochie without saying we did the right thing with Shandon.

crash said it the best....this was not a salary decision. Moochie is not Maloney. From what I've seen Damon is not really a playmaking PG, and we don't really need spot up shooters and that position. Are you at least willing to admit that these guys play the position differently?? Damon is like a Kenny Smith type and Moochie lives off of drives and dishes. They play it differently, and we value Moochie's style more. That doesn't mean Damon won't be better fitted somewhere else.

 

nuff said!

 

DREAMer, why are you so worried about saving Les' money? He's got millions.

 

DREAMer,

Ahhh. You like the bigger 3 guard set. That's why you don't agree with Moochie. I can see that. I do not see Damon as that big, though...but I can definitely see Torres being better than Shandn right now for the 3 guard set.

Our difference in opinion is simple. I like Francis on the wing sometimes playing SG, and Mobley simpley destroys all SFs. The easiest way to force SFs to guard Mobley is not by putting Torres in there (or Shandn), but by putting a true PG in there like Moochie.

So, your idea is based on size to prevent Mobley having to guard taller SF (it seems), and my idea is based on forcing Mobley to be guarded by *any* opposing SF. Is that a fair assessment? If so, I am not worried in the least about Mobley getting the better of any mismatch situation opposite a SF. Some teams don't even try, and will field 3 guards to match us. I want Francis at SG sometimes to guarantee that the SF must guard Mobley, because I believe that is the most disruptive mismatch we can field on a game-to-game basis.

 

Personally I say what's the big deal? Moochie's money doesn't really effect the cap, especially since it doesn't count as the full 3 million since he was signed using a version of the Bird Rights. He knows the system, gets along with the team and helps chemistry, knows what Rudy wants, does a great job of running the point allowing Francis to rest, or filling in in case Francis misses a game, and allows the Rockets to add versatility, such as small ball. Jones ONLY advantages over Moochie is that he is a better 3pt shooter and he is cheaper. Personally I would rather over pay slightly if it makes the team better then underpay to simply save a dollar. That is what put Cleveland and the Clippers in the positions they were in for years. Besides it's not my money, and Les can afford it, so I say lets play ball!

 

Why overpay just because you can? I know Moochie's important, but who else would've given him anything close to what we did?

Did we give any of Hakeem's backups 25 million dollars? I can't be certain, but I don't think Dave Feitl or Charles Jones pulled down that kind of money. Is Les the new Mark Cuban? If so, I would've rather spent that money on about 5 assistant coaches to help with Rudy's atrocious play-calling in crucial situations than helping Moochie pay for (I hope) a new hair-dresser.

 

Jones is a better shooter than Mooch, but Moochie is a great at driving to the hoop; either scoring, getting fouled, or dishing it out to an open shooter for 3. And with Rice added to our lineup Mooch will help him get more wide open 3s.

 

My two cents,

I think DJones is better value for the money, especially when we are looking to sign Steve for gazillion dollars in the very near future.

There stats are comparable, however, Moochie's defence and penatration game is slightly better. I have watched Djones since his freshman year at UofH and I have watched Moochie during his days with the Sonics.

Both are quality backups and we could have had Djones for $1.5 to $2.0 mil per year for the next 6. A $12.0 mil savings would have appealled to my man Les

 

Dreamer,
If Francis or Mobley were to be hurt for a short or long amount of time, your suggestion about them backing eachother up is invalid and a risky project.

 

He didn't say they would backup each other. He said Mobley would be the PG backup during games, and you'd get a proven vet to backup Mobley and play SG when either Mobley or Francis rests. My point is the opposite; you have Francis be Mobley's backup during games and a proven vet like Moochie to play when either Francis or Mobley rest.

No one said you have 2 players with no backups. The point is to have 3 players handle most all the rotation minutes for 2 positions. This is similar in theory to how Jordan, Pippen and Kukoc handled 2 positions largely by themselves. You still have a 4th and 5th minimum salary player to handle the injury scenarios you mention. Our points are concerning fielding a high-octane rotation when you cannot find or afford a good backup for each position.