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Monkey on their backs: Rockets are 11-42 without T-Mac

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Clutch, Dec 21, 2007.

  1. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Compared to what he did in Orlando?

    ZERO... none... nada.

    I've never felt that T-mac wasn't trying his hardest to win games... and a lot of that was because JVG wouldn't let a player sniff the locker room if he didn't feel he was playing hard while he was on the court.

    The guy did have a bad back problem... which has seemed to be controlled now with the specialist and the weekly treatments. The guy was the #1 reason we even sniffed the playoffs last year. The guy was also the #1 reason we were even up 2-0 on Dallas to begin with.

    Which is exactly why I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, and allow the team, and himself, to work through this. He's openly frustrated... saying he's not sure what this team is supposed to be (hell, NOBODY here knows what they're supposed to be). Adelman has openely stated he had to slow down the offense in order to "get these guys to be comfortable again at what they know how to do," indicating he's somewhat convinced that "his system" may not be able to be fully implemented here.

    Its still a huge work in progress... and as soon as they commit to ONE system, ONE idea, and everyone gets on the same page, the team will start to win some games (which will cure all mis-givings).
     
  2. wolverinemich

    wolverinemich Member

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    I am almost fooled into believing that Tmac is a more franchise player than anyone on Rox ...

     
  3. zong

    zong Member

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    What is the record in this year w/o Tmac? Yes, the rox would lose the game this year without him because he got the injures whenever the Rox were far behind, almost never got an injure when the rox were having a 10 or more point lead.
     
  4. EssTooKayTD

    EssTooKayTD Contributing Member

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    I still can't believe people think McGrady is the Rockets' problem. It seriously dumbfounds me. He is not the reason we lost the last couple of playoff series.

    Let's not point the finger at the obvious under-performing of the other guys on this squad minus Yao.

    Watch the games, they come out, Tracy either starts out hot or cold, and it's almost guaranteed no one else but Yao is scoring. What's Tracy going to do? Trust his shot more than anyone elses, that's for sure.

    He makes initial passes which either the shot is missed or leads to the pass that is an assist. Either way, if his shooters were better around him, he'd have another 1-2 assist per game.

    Now, I agree with Clutch as far as this team needs to show they can win without him, because that HOPEFULLY means they can be even better with him returning.

    What is read in the post and numbers is, this team can't conduct themselves in a winning manner unless TMac is bailing them out. HOWEVER...I am seeing some more leadership qualities coming out of Yao *on the court* where it's most important. I rikey.
     
  5. DaDakota

    DaDakota Margrave Member
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    TMac's skills are not the problem, Tmac's attitude and dominance of the ball ARE the problem.

    So, when people say he is the problem, I believe they are right. Tmac has to CHANGE the way he plays, move without the ball, get everyone involved, and not by him dominating the ball and possessions, that stagnates the team and makes the Rockets too one dimensional.

    Tmac has to embrace the new system as long as he fights it, the team is going nowhere.

    DD
     
  6. denniscd

    denniscd Contributing Member

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    agreed everyone has to commit to adelman's style of play...its that simple
     
  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota Margrave Member
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    Dude, we are agreeing too much these days...it is getting scary...

    ;)
     
  8. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    What is the new system?

    Because when they were 6-1, and he was leading the league in scoring, it seemed like the "new system" would be a god-send to his career. Then, as soon as teams caught on, and made adjustments, the Rockets were stuck with thumbs up their asses.

    Now, since its obvious that this team lacks any sort of personnel to play an uptempo game, Adelman has openely stated he's had to revert back to "doing what these guys know how to do..." (indicating more of a JVG-half-court style, rather than "his system").

    T-mac said it best when he's not sure what kind of team they're supposed to be. Are they uptempo? Half court? Fully commited to defense? Fully commited to offense? What do they do when teams deny Yao? Can anybody else make an open shot?

    He's frustrated... as we all are.

    Once they figure that out, things will be a helluva lot better FOR EVERYONE... and all it takes is winning games (which we know they can do with the slow-down, grind it out, half court game) to make everybody at ease.
     
  9. DaDakota

    DaDakota Margrave Member
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    TMac has to play OFF the ball, let the ball hop around from man to man, not be dominated by Tracy.

    Last night the team played very good basketball, they were moving the ball, cutting, picking, rolling......playing with passion and smarts...

    When Tmac is in there, whether it is his fault or not, players stand around and watch......they need to be part of the offense when he is in the game as well.

    Get the ball out of his hands, have him moving around and part of the overall system....players play harder when they think their cuts have a chance of being rewarded.

    TMac needs to join in the fun.....or get out of the way.

    DD
     
  10. ivanyy2000

    ivanyy2000 Contributing Member

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    T-Mac is the most talented player on this team. Other players is not even close. Nobody on this team can score points and make plays like he does. But this guy has serious mental problem. He is just mentally weak.

    On the other hand, Yao is working hard trying to carry this team. But he couldn't do it because of his limitations.

    I think this team will still be fine without major roster changes. A floor general and locker room leader like Derek Fisher can do the trick.
     
  11. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Once again... what is the system? Because last night, was far different than what they started the season with. There were very little Yao high posts, and zero princeton-offense sets.

    It was actually just dump it into Yao, Yao draws the double team, and finds the open man... more Rudy T offense than anything else (and Denver didn't do anything big to deny Yao the ball... something most elite teams will do plenty of).

    And the game where the Rockets were fully "exposed" was the Toronto game... which was the first game Rafer missed, where T-mac was forced to handle the ball.

    If T-mac isn't going to handle the ball (and given the fact that he's our best passer, best post-entry passer, and best playmaker), Rafer will become even more vital to this team's success.

    The biggest problem, I see, is that guys like Mike James, Steve Francis, and Luther Head are USELESS unless they can hit an open shot. Shane Battier is borderline useless if this team isn't playing the sort of help defense that he can then thrive in (by drawing charges, playing passing lanes, etc.)

    Also, T-mac is no good as a "decoy" if he's not getting elevation off his knee (which he wasn't getting on Wednesday). If he's healthy, he can definitely "thrive" in the half-court, slow it down, offense (provided teams aren't denying Yao, and allowing him to get plenty of touches to find the open man).
     
  12. McGradySNKT

    McGradySNKT Contributing Member

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    Your incessant hate and windwalking is brutally typical.

    You love to leave the part out where our PG's suck donkey balls.

    The guy with the ball the most should be the PG, but since Rafer Alston sucks, the team needs the ball in Tmac's hands to be the main decision maker.

    Don't give me that crap about the offense flowing better now, because it was just fine when Yao was out last year and he led the team to 52 wins. I didnt see you going on your prozac rants at that time.

    You know good and well JVG had Tmac making all of the plays and running the same 3 plays all year long. That's the problem in the first place with relying on one guy to do everything. His usage rate was insane and 1st in the league. You don't think that affects a players body?

    Get a real PG on the team in the first place and that won't be a problem as you say :rolleyes:
     
  13. DaDakota

    DaDakota Margrave Member
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    ROFLMAO - I have been saying that for more than 4 years.......but that doesn't change a thing if Tmac still dominates the ball.

    Having a real PG walk it up and hand it off to Tmac at the top of the key is a recipe for first round exits.

    Having A PG bring it up pass it to a wing, make a cut, set a screen, have Tmac on the other wing utilize that screen to come to the elbow for a jump shot or drive.

    NOW THAT ...would make a difference.

    :D

    DD
     
  14. McGradySNKT

    McGradySNKT Contributing Member

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    So you're blaming McGrady for the plays called by the coaching staff and the fact that Rafer sucks.

    I understand.
     
  15. Angkor Wat

    Angkor Wat Member

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    C'mon, one thing that we can't question here is his ability to get his teammates involved. Aside from this little losing streak, he's done a great job getting everyone involved. Let's not forget he leads this team in Assist. Considering how bad everyone is shooting, that is pretty good. Sure he may dominate the ball but name me one Superstar or Franchise player that doesn't dominate the ball from time to time. Theres a reason why JVG said T-Mac has the best court vision right behind Steve Nash.

    I agree that T-Mac could play with more heart and passion. Sure he needs to have a better shot selection. We could definitely use him to play through injuries. And yes he needs to play with more balls but getting his teammates involved is not a problem. Still though, his teammates can help him out by hitting those open shots.
     
  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota Margrave Member
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    No you addle brained cumquat...I am blaming TMac for NOT running the plays, and for dominating the ball and causing the offense to stagnate.

    Basically DOING TOO DAMNED MUCH !

    It is pretty clear to me that Tmac has not exactly embraced moving without the ball and getting out on the break and running.

    If he really is committed to winning, he needs to get with the program.

    SHEESH !

    DD
     
  17. McGradySNKT

    McGradySNKT Contributing Member

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    I dont think he knows how to win honestly, which is why i think he should've went to college because he is definitely not a #1 option.

    Besides that, your reasoning is faulty, and you fail to place the reponsibility where it belongs.
     
  18. DaDakota

    DaDakota Margrave Member
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    Everyone is at fault.

    The organization for not getting the proper mix of players (but at least they are trying)

    The Coaches for changing the system so dramatically instead of little by little to keep the players comfortable.

    to the players for not embracing the system, and for not playing with a sense of urgency.

    They are all culpuble.....IMO.

    But, Tmac has the ability to make it all better by adjusting his style of play and thus making the team better overall, less dominance of the ball by him = better team play, others playing harder and the team getting better overall.

    DD
     
  19. McGradySNKT

    McGradySNKT Contributing Member

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    ... and you're back to square one and overrating him again.

    No player should be relied on to fix the problems of an entire organization, tha's why its a team, and why this team continues to lose.

    No one player is that good, and no matter what Tmac does, they'll always come short with the thinking that him him him instead of them them them are responsible.
     
  20. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    T-Mac obviously isn't the "problem" with this team, and its obvious we need him on this squad to win.

    But that doesn't mean he isn't and shouldn't be traded. I think he should. Why?

    1. Yes, we can't win without him, but welcome to the NBA. To win games in the NBA you need to play well in the 4th quarter. To do that, you need to have your guards play well in the 4th quarter. Hakeem is the only championship winning superstar of the last 25 years who didn't have serious serious talent around him in the backcourt. And even without it, he still did have Vernon Maxwell, Kenny Smith, Sam Cassell, Robert Horry...all marginal players with cajones of steel.

    The fact of the matter is that big man, even if dominant, by nature of the fact that the ball is NOT in their hands for much of the game, are not your likely closer. This doesn't mean Shaq, or Yao, or Dwight, or Hakeem back in the day couldn't and shouldn't put up big 4th quarter stats. But it does mean that Hakeem is more likely to win a big game in the playoffs on a tip-in buzzer beater of a Clyde Drexler drive as opposed to a post move, Shaq is more likely to throw down an alley-oop of a Kobe drive than a post move, the Pistons are more likely to have Chauncy Billups hitting key shots than Rasheed, David Robinson wasn't going to win a championship until Avery Johnson learned how to hit a jumper in the clutch...etc, etc, etc.

    Can Tracy be clutch? Sure. Is he? Rarely. When he is, he's certainly awesome at it (Spurs 13 in 35, Dallas Game 2 in the playoffs). And if we had better talent around Tracy and Yao, he wouldn't have to do it as much. But as is, with the team we have, and the fact that your "closer" is usually your superstar backcourt player as opposed to frontcourt, Tracy is NOT clutch enough. You heard it last night. Now 2-36 over the last two years when trailing after 3 quarters. That's horrible.

    2. Tracy is getting older. He also tends to be injury prone.

    3. Value. If you want to buy low and sell high we probably should have traded him already. But McGrady is obviously still a great player. 25 ppg, a bunch of assists, good rebounds, solid defender when he wants to be. Tracy's value should still be high.

    4. What else can you do? Everyone knows the rest of the team sucks. We're not going to get anyone good in return for Rafer Alston. Or Luther Head. Or Mike James. But package them with Tracy and can you get 2 near all-star level players. Maybe.

    5. Style. This is further down the list, but I think it is important. Everyone likes to talk about how with Yao we need to be a halfcourt team to be at our best, as if, without Yao, we'd be running and gunning. After 3 years, I see it just the opposite. Forget about the fact that the rest of our players can't play that system, Tracy is NOT suited for that system. Look, by default, a majority of your points are going to come in the halfcourt, so Yao will have his chance to be effective and dominate. And his stamina has improved so much over the years...he may tire a little quicker, but I think you could fit him into a faster system just fine.

    But Tracy just doesn't play fast. And as one of our two primary ballhandlers, that's dictating the style of the rest of the team. He likes to take his time on post-ups just as much if not more than Yao. He likes to walk the ball up the court more than anyone on the team. He isn't sprinting down the court on the wings in fast break opportunities. It's not his game. Nothing wrong with that. He could fit in and be a great help to any number of teams that had other players who do that. But on our team, where no one else is capable of filling that wing, and no one else is capable of pushing the ball, we need Tracy to do it, and he can't / won't.

    Anyways, those are just some of my thoughts. Obviously the team is worse without Tracy, and obviously not capable of winning, as currently put together, without him. We have no "closers", with him, or without him, really.
     

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