Houston Chronicle: Same old offense Cuttino Mobley placed blame for the Rockets' 30-point loss to Seattle on Friday on his team's lack of intensity, and especially with its failure to get back defensively against the SuperSonics' fast break. But he also talked about the Rockets' predictable offense as if it was something new, seemingly also blaming the Rockets' game plan for their offensive troubles. "They did a good job scouting us," Mobley said. "It's easy to scout us. They did a real good job with everything we do." Asked what the SuperSonics were able to tactically take away, Mobley said, "Everything we do. Read that how you want." Rockets coach Rudy Tomjanovich said the Sonics used Gary Payton to help interfere with the Rockets' passes to Mobley, but that an adjustment was made to foil that strategy. Tomjanovich said he was not concerned that Mobley seemed to be complaining about the offense, describing it as a natural reaction to a frustrating loss. "We made an adjustment," Tomjanovich said. "They were switching Gary Payton over there and we made the adjustment. When you shoot that percentage and give up that many fast breaks, this is what happens." Rockets guard Steve Francis, however, said the problem was not with the style of offense, but with how it was run. "It's always been like that," Francis said. "When they can bring a guy over to the strong side, it's hard to do any drives from that side. We were not rotating the ball quick enough, so the guy on the other side can get a shot. We have to move the ball better, instead of trying to do too much." Bumps and bruises The Rockets left Houston in relatively good health, but three games into a five-game road trip have brought on a new batch of injuries. It looks like Mobley is feeling the same way as a few members here at BBS on the rockets offense. It's also surprising that he would feel this way about a offense that is built around him and Francis.
This is what Mobley said after the Sac game, in reference to the way Sacramento moves the ball around: "That's communication right there," Mobley said. "It's like playing with Jason Kidd. You run the floor, you know you're going to get it. These guys cut backdoor, they know they're going to get it." I don't think the Rockets problems stem from scheme as much as from a lack of ball movement. Mobley is just as bad as Francis when it comes to holding the ball too long. They both have to recognize that they are easier to defend if they are going to pound the ball for 12 seconds just to try to dribble through a double or triple team. No scheme works if its central components don't move the ball around to the open man--no matter who that open man is. Like Calvin Murphy says every game, "Keep that ball hopping like its hot."
..."recognize"...?? Isn't that pretty much what Mobley said in your quote and The Real Shady's (bad nick btw ). Mobley and Francis are doing the highest percentage thing we can muster. That is my sincere belief-ism about this team. This is not true. If you put me out there on the court, NBA defense will step away from me, guard all the other passing lanes, and <b>force</b> Francis to pass it to me or hold the ball and duck his head down and bull rush the basket for a foul...he hopes. So, what would you rather have, Francis pass me the ball, or bull rush it to the rim. point is: Shandon couldn't knock down an open shot better. Terrence couldn't beat CriscoKidd in H.O.R.S.E. Cato cannot (while I give him kudos for his new inspired play, the dude sucks of offense worse than Collier). When you have 1 person with no shot (and worse, 2 people), NBA defenses can take away your effective ball movement unless you pass to the bad guy. The moment you do, they clamp down on everyone else and force that guy to beat them. good luck this is real basketball logic. You can't argue against this logic. I could spew out text after text of how Ball Movement and the Passing Game works and how Bobby Knight always recruited shooters. Everyone at Indiana could hit an open shot. This is a pet peeve of mine about talking about the Rockets. I hate our offense, but I also realize that we <b>cannot</b> get better results by trying to implement the Kings Zipper offense, much less Bobby Knight's Passing Game. We don't have the personnel. we are better suited for just developing plays for our scorers, tanking, and then trading Francis for Yao Ming and Jamal Crawford
Cato cannot (while I give him kudos for his new inspired play, the dude sucks of offense worse than Collier). When you have 1 person (and worse, 2 people), NBA defenses can take away your effective ball movement unless you pass to the bad guy. The moment you do, they clamp down on everyone else and force that guy to beat them. This is only true if those bad players are put in bad spots. T-Mo shoots 2's fairly decently. If he didn't always go stand in the corner at the 3pt line, teams would have to guard him. Similarly, you wouldn't guard Cato at the top of the key, but there will almost always be a man on him if he's hanging around near the basket. Whenever there's not, he gets easy dunks.
I'm still saying Morris can shoot, he just needs confidence and time, but we'll wait and see. Anyhow, Cato has sort of learned how to catch a pass near the basket and dunk it...most of the time. What does Maculloch do that allows the Nets to get better movement going? He has great hands, and can finish near the basket, but can't shoot, and doesn't have Divac like passing skills. Or Ben Wallace and the Pistons?
There is no rule that the open guy has to stand at the three point line for the open shot. Lately, Morris has been cutting to the basket without the ball lookign for the pass. He has also been dribbling to the basket when he gets the ball out of his range. The open guy doesn't just have to shoot immediately. He can move in for an open shot or threaten the rim to force a defensive reaction. Just as when Kenny gets the ball in an open spot, he doesn't just jack up a shot. He moves into a position where he is effective to either score or move the ball if the defense reacts. Aside from trying to score, passing the ball allows Francis and Mobley to reset (by perhaps running of a screen or two), just as how multiple post entry passes are used to help a guy--like Shaq--improve his post position. Jason Kidd does this often when teams trap the ball. Kidd passes to the open guy then comes back to the ball (the open guys doesn't have to shoot it). Resetting your position beats dribbling out the clock and challenging a triple team anyday. Whether you run the Kings' Zipper set, Knights passing O or NJ's Princeton style O, the idea is to keep the ball moving until you catch the defense in a bad position. Not put your head down and dribble through three defenders. That is how basketball is played, as I am sure you know. Outside of the half court set, you have to move the ball around--even to the bad guy. The Rockets have fast break personnel but don't fast break. Griffin, Morris, Thomas, Willis, Cato, Mobley, Francis all run the court well. Shandon ran the floor well as a Rocket. Better decision making and passing the ball well would do wonders for the Rockets' fast break.
Major and JeffB, Everything you say is spot on correct. However, you are not really describing ball movement like Mobley did when he mentioned Sacramento, or like I did in mentioning Indiana. Just because Cato is guarded under the basket or Terrence should be placed 15' away instead of 20', you are not addresses the issues of what those guys do to disrupt the Zipper Offense or Knights Passing Game. You have to view it from the eyes of the ball handler. Why in the hell is Francis's pnr being trapped aggressively but Stockton never was (except against Pippen in the finals....lol). sure we should pass it around and all...and we are making progress there. Yeah, Terrence should sit on the bench. I admit that. But when he is on the court, he should nail his open shots or do is fancy-dandy Pippen move to the basket. But isn't the topic here about drastically changing the system. You can't drastically change the system into a fancy Ball Movement/Passing Game until you have passers and shooters littering the court. We don't. Face it. Up and down the roster, we don't have any court vision guys who can shoot. We can't play the game the way I learned it and love so much. you think maybe I'm biased and trying to protect Rudy here? Tweaking this or that play call is not going to improve efficiency versus Mobley hitting around 47% for 30 some odd games. We need Ming!
I don't think you need a major overhaul of the system to get good passing. Francis gets trapped so aggressively because he behaves clueless with his dribbling on the sideline and doesn't get rid of the ball in a timely manner. I see John Stockton, Jason Kidd and Andre Miller get trapped all the time. Those guys simply pass off the ball to the open guy (who usually moves to give the passer a good passing angle) and then get the ball back. I don't care how the shooting limitations of certain players afffect the sets Rudy can run. My concern is about the ball handlers missing cutters, dribbling out the clock, getting trapped on the sideline, mismanaging the fast break (not passing), etc. Passing the ball helps any offense. Even if you pass the ball just so you can get it back--like Jason Kidd does when he pass the ball to Todd MacCullough(sp) behind the three point line--ball movement is more efficient than dribbling out the clock or dribbling into a worse situation--like trying to beat a double team by dribbling to the sideline. As Mobley's shooting percentage, Calvin Murphy points out, Mobley shoots at a higher clip when there is better ball movement. When the ball isn't hopping, Mobley struggles. Cuttino is a better player when he doesn't take 14 dribbles to get his shot off.
I've got to agree with crispee here- the Rockets offense is designed out of neccesity rather than preference. The abundance of one dimensional role players on this team hinders the number of possible offensive sets they can run Cato is offensively inept, and his recent sustained intensity has blinded a lot of people from that fact since it's been such a stark contrast to his abysmal past few seasons. Morris, though I think he can develop a shot, is one of a handful of players that can claim they've hit the side of the backboard in a game. Kenny will always be better suited as the primary option off the bench. He's not that effective in the context of a team offense. Then there's Walt.....who only plays well during his allocated quota of 'contract games' each year. What does this mean? Defenses can bog down on the guards knowing that he big men are situated on the perimeter in the Rockets offense, and are no threat to hit an open shot from that far out off of perimeter passing. Some kind of inverted post presence is needed.....Mo should help, and Ming would be a very nice addition. The Rockets offense isn't really that bad though.....in theory The Dallas Mavericks don't have a different offensive scheme than the Rockets, which is why I always find it ironic that people use them as an example of a team that has embraced the 'share the ball philosophy'. They simply have the required personell to make the system work. Talent can make any offensive system look good. The Rockets are one offensive post presence away from making Rudy look like a master offensive strategist..... well, maybe that's a bit of a hyperbole
You can argue against this logic, and it's quite a simple argument crispee. It's the coach's responsibility to develop an offense that puts his players in the position they're able to score. Morris can't hit the open 3, and teams are willing to give him that open look in order to clamp down on Francis, or Mobley. So if they know it, and we know it, why the heck would you have that player sit behind the arc and give the opposing team what it wants? Find a way to get Morris the ball in the 14-18 foot range and he's much more capable of knocking down that shot. Consequently forcing the D to respect him to a greater degree. This isn't an argument about Bobby Knight's passing offense, or using the King's Zipper. It's about developing a system capable of playing to all your player's strengths, and putting them into a position to thrive. Why put a player in a position that is clearly detrimental to your offensive game? Even if they're going to lay off one or two of our offensive players when they have the ball, why does that mean the player with the ball has to take the shot? What's stopping us from using off ball picks and cuts to get the ball back into a scorer's hands? Morris is quite capable of doing that. Does getting the ball into a not so great shooter's hands perclude offensive motion? I'd rather have Francis pass it to you. After which, I'd like to have Mobley or another shooter, to come off a screen or 2 in order to get into a position to recieve a pass and have a good offensive chance to drive, shoot, or pass. It isn't a binary solution, it should never be Francis drives, or you get the ball and have to shoot. There are a myriad of other options and some of those fit our personel and others don't. The rockets just need to find an offensive identity that fit's their talent, not the talent to fit an identity they hope will work.
boy, that was a great read JeffB. I really, r.e.a.l.l.y. agree with that post 100%. It was the "Princeton Offense" thing that made me puke earlier. But that is another thread...maybe via email. Where have you been all my BBS life. You need to start more threads. just like thacabbage and tpl and cato13 ... (verse is out, because he already starts major amounts of threads.) So, I have a new Hangout voting game for puedlfor and Manny. "Which Poster do you wish would start more threads!"
I have actually thought about doing that, crispee. That is one of many ideas in my head that for now is on the back-burner since I got several going already like the hot chicks and Mustangs which are driven primarily by chicks, well the V-6 type. Yes, it would be nice to get all 5 players that are on the floor to be great shooters, but I'm convinced that no matter how long he practices, TMo will never be a consistent outside shooter, and Cato, well he is a lost cause when it comes to this. I would like to know what people would think about this line-up, assuming no deals are made and everyone gets healthy: SF - Eddie PF - Kenny C - Mo SG - Cat PG - Francis Now, granted Mo is coming off a bad injury, but if he can come close to what he produced in 2000-2001, then I think that this is a potent offensive scoring team. You could have Rice or Cato as the 6th man...your pick. But for some reason, I really like that line-up...too bad, that we never got a chance to see it for this year (assuming that Mo doesn't come back for like the last 5 games of this season). But I admit, crispee has got me hungering for Yao although at the tune of losing Francis sorta gives me a migraine!
OK, if we suck because we lack the personel to play our offensive scheme, a.) why don't we choose a different scheme or b.) who the heck picked these personel and when are they getting fired? Also, doesn't KT play SF when KT and EG play together? No matter what position EG plays, Rudy will stick him at the 3 point line on offense. He's consistent that way.
