MJ or Pippen? Who was the better defender in their primes?

I hate to say they were equal, but they were.

With that having been said, they were totally different defenders. Pip was great at help defense, as well as playing the passing lanes. The fact that he played the passing lanes well, didn't just help when he got the 2-3 steals a game, but all those times that teams were hesitant to throw a pass in his general direction, helped the defense out a lot. His man-to-man defense was so-so. IMO, his best man-to-man defense was played against PGs, where his size posed problems. I always have memories of Kobe schooling Pippen, from the 99 playoff series.

As for MJ, he was a great man-to-man defender. I don't really remember how well of a team defender he was though.

In today's game, where teams have less scoring balance than they used to, I think having smart help defenders is more useful than man-to-man stoppers. The help defenders can prevent the other team's best player to get the ball. Often times, starts like Kobe or Duncan will just not miss a shot, no matter who is on him. For that reason, I value help defense over man-to-man.

 

Pippen.
No disrespect towards MJ who was a fantastic defender, but Pip in his prime was probably the best one-on-one defender ever.
Not only that, but his awareness was one of the reasons he would dominate on the defensive end and control the floor.

 

Pippen took the hardest defensive assigments. I wouldn't say that Jordan is a cheater on D, but he had that safety net with Pippen backing him up.

Awhile back in SI's preseason issue, they had an article on best defenders and Mr. All time steals leader showed up as one the most overrated. It was based on accounts by players around the league.

 

Pip was.
MJ was an above average defender who was allowed to mug people.
Pip always took the teams best scorer (SG, PG or SF).

PS- I still hate Pip

 

Pippen, no question.

 

Absolute Ditto!

 

Here's what Paul Westphal said after losing to Jordan:

<blockquote><hr> ``I don't even think Michael can stop Michael,'' said Westphal. ``All you can do is make Michael work for his shots. I'm as much in awe of Michael Jordan as anyone else. He's the best offensive point guard and defensive point guard of all time, the best offensive and defensive two guard, the best offensive and defensive small forward - and he's probably right up there in the top five at power forward and center.'<hr></blockquote>

Despite all the defensive awards Jordan won, his defense will always be underrated to the so-called defensive specialist in the league. The only thing Pippen has on Jordan is he didn't have to expend so much energy on offense, so he was fresher to focus on defense. Had Jordan not been a scoring machine, he would be widely known as the best defensive shooting guard ever....and his 1st Team Defense votes back that up.

4chuckie,

Pippen always took the toughest assignment? Let's look at the Finals.

Pippen took KJ??? no
Pippen took Drexler??? no, Jordan did
Pippen took Reggie??? no, Jordan did
Pippen took Starks??? no, Jordan did
Pippen took Magic??? no, Jordan did and Pippen did too
Pippen took Isiah??? no
Pippen took Payton??? no, Jordan did

Pippen holds the record for most 1st Team Defensive awards...no, Jordan does.

Pippen was great and very disruptive, but let's not stretch it to say that Jordan could take risks because Pippen was behind him like some awesome center like Hakeem. Pippen never took Shooting Guards. Jordan always took his assignment, and the shooting guards were often the toughest assignment out there.

btw: Rodman was their best defender.

 

For what it's worth, Jordan had 9 all NBA defensive first team selections, Pippen had 7 first team and 2 second team selections...Jordan also has an NBA defensive player of the year award

...and to say that Pippen always defended the team's best scorer is debatable at best...

 

Actually:

Jordan checked Thunder Dan/Ainge. Advantage Pip.

I'm not sure who checked Drexler.

Jordan might have checked Reggie (if you are referring to the playoff games with the Pacers), but Pippen was the one applying full court D on Mark Jackson and slowing the Pacers down. Advantage Pip.

I'm not sure who checked Starks. Does it really matter, as Ewing was the #1 option anyway.

No, Pippen checked Magic. Go watch the tapes again.

Neither one of them checked Isiah. Somebody had to hold Dumars, and somebody had to hold Agguire, so this one is pretty even.

Jordan did not check Payton, Payton was the one echeking Jordan. Watch the tapes again.

You also failed to mention the two years the Bulls played the Jazz in the Finals. Pippen basically "held" Ostertag, and remained free to roam on D, thus disrupting the Jazz offense. But then again, the Bulls big men were the ones holding Malone and forcing him to take jumpers all series long, so does it really matter.

Also, whoever said Jordan is a better on the ball defender than Pip was is nuts.

 

http://cgi.canoe.ca/NBAPlayoffsCHIUTA/jun11_pip.html

HP-
Jordan was a good defensive player but he got more calls than anyone in history. No official in the league had the cahones to call him for too many fouls. A call here or there to appeast the opposing coach but in crunch time Jordan could tackle the opponent and never be called.

I would still take Pips defence or MJ's (in their prime) and assuming you had an official who would call something.

But if you have NBA officials doing the game then Jordan would be better just because of the bias.

PS- You may be right about the matchups. I know the matchups went more to Pip taking the best offensive player after MJ came back from retirement I. But in their primes (pre-retirment) I can't remeber who took whom, so you're probably right.

 

Icehouse,

Nice moniker, btw. What's your favorite Icehouse?

No, they both checked Magic. Go read the nba.com recap, here

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19901991.html

Payton didn't check Jordan all the time. And Jordan did take Payton some. Pippen never took Payton, though.

This is not about who guarded the tougher opponent. My point was that Pippen didn't always guard the toughest backcourt player, as was stated here. They were both able to guard different positions...that was proven.

You can say all you want how Pippen was a defensive stud, and be completely correct, but I still say Jordan is by far the best shooting guard defender ever, and he could take more point guards than Pippen could. Of course, Pippen could guard taller players better, so what does that all mean, other than I am measuring them in a relatively manner. The amazing thing is that Jordan got his 9 Defensive 1st Teams while putting out more effort on the offensive side that Pippen ever could. Just imagine if Pippen ran the offense and Jordan was a defensive specialist?

and...Paul Westphal agrees with me

<i>He's the best offensive point guard and defensive point guard of all time, the best offensive and defensive two guard, the best offensive and defensive small forward </i>

 

Those who have played or coached against both Jordan and Pippen know much better than anyone else, so Westphal's statement should be seriously taken into account.

 

Hands down with out a doubt Scottie Pippen.

 

Pippen covered Glide the majority of the time. I'm positive (take a look at my username).

It's kind of dumb to say Pippen didn't get the tougher assignment because he didn't always guard Isiah, KJ, or Payton. Those guys are small point guards. Pippen could have done the best job covering them, but that would leave a smaller Bulls player guarding a small forward. Much as I dislike Phil Jackson, he certainly wasn't stupid enough to have Pippen on Payton and leave BJ Armstrong to guard Dale Ellis or Detlef Schrempf.

Pippen and Jordan guarded Magic? Well yes, that's technically correct. Jordan was given his chances, until Jackson figured out (rather quickly) that Jordan couldn't handle Magic, while Pippen could. I suggest you check out this article:

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19901991.html

This article talks about the Bulls' 1991 title against the Lakers. Here are the highlights:

--The series was billed as Michael vs. Magic, a marquee matchup between the sport's two most glamorous players, the best M&M act since Maris and Mantle. The men behind the nicknames recognized their part in the much-ballyhooed event.

--Jackson had Jordan guarding Johnson, with relief help from Pippen. Chicago also double-teamed Johnson whenever he held onto the ball for awhile.

--(In Game 2) The Bulls also discovered a defensive stopper in Pippen, who switched over onto Johnson after Jordan picked up his second personal foul in the first quarter and did an outstanding job on the Lakers' star, pestering him into 4-for-13 shooting.


In non media-hyped terms, Jordan got torched by Magic in Game 1 even with a whole lot of help defense. So Pippen guarded Magic for the rest of the series. Game 1 (the only game where Jordan covered Magic) was the only game the Bulls lost in that series. Oh, but Jordan is just as good of a defender. Of course.

 

I still stick with Westphal's statement, knowing that he had to coach and devise offensive strategies against both Jordan and Pippen. He would know much better than all of us.

 

If you have a choice, why would you want to put your best offensive player on the toughest defensive assignment? They work harder and may get into foul trouble. It's silly to say who is best solely because of the defensive assignments. If you argue that Pippen was better because he was assigned tougher covers, that just means that looking at their total games, Pippen was more expendable in the eyes of Jackson. (And everyone else.)

I side with Jordan because he was not only a good defensive player, he was a clutch defensive player. Jordan was more often than not able to make defensive plays in the last 30 seconds that made a difference and often did it by leaving his man and going somewhere else to make the play. That takes both cajones and intelligence.