I am having a garage sale this weekend, so, like I normally do, I called up the Houston Chronicle to put in a classified ad. It always brings in extra people! I call up and, in an effort to shorten the ad, I asked them to put "x-mas decor" for the Christmas items we are selling. The woman on the phone said they were not allowed to use "x-mas" as part of Chronicle policy because they believe it is taking the Christ out of Christmas and, therefore, is wrong. Now, I have NO PROBLEM with religion in our holiday whether you celebrate Christian, Jewish or even Pagan (Winter Solstice) holidays. Whatever. But, I was not under the impression that the Chron was a religious newspaper or in the business of telling its advertisers what they could put in their ads based on a religious belief. It seem more than a little silly to me. ------------------ Mmmmmmm. Sacrelicious.
I wonder if that is a Chronicle policy or if it is a Hearst-Wide policy. (Or if it is even a policy at all. Perhaps you just got a deeply religious or deeply committed to squeezing every dollar out of a customer classified ad salesperson who claims its policy. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
Actually, the ad cost me nothing more than the x would have despite the larger number of letters. She even told me that they would not charge me if the extra letters mean another line of text. So, it probably has little to do with economics. My guess is pressure from Christian readers and advertisers based on the way she said it and explained it to me. Technically, rimbaud is correct. The birth of Christ was dated by many historians and theologians as in either June or July. The church set December 25 for the holiday as a way to offset the pagan holiday, Winter Solstice. Remember, the church in Europe was not the predominant religion of that region until the crusades. Paganism was the predominant religion in Europe until then. There was no official church holiday in the winter prior to Christmas. ------------------ Mmmmmmm. Sacrelicious.
John 3:16 (first draft; no longer in Bible): "For God so loved the children, that he gave his only begotten Santa; that whosoever, be nice, not naugty, should be granted everlasting gifts." The bit about the reindeer and elves was originally covered in John 3:17-19, before the revision. Disclaimer: This is a joke. Lighten up and Merry Christmas [This message has been edited by Launch Pad (edited November 30, 2000).]
Isn't Christmas derived from Christs Mass? Outlaw: besides an X is just a titled cross St. Anthony (I think it was him) was crucified on an "X" shaped cross. The "X" shaped cross is called the cross of St. Anthony. ------------------ Hey, I've got a new signature! 302
One, the Chronicle is a private company and will do whatever it damn well pleases. Two, rimbaud, I think you are mischaracterizing the purpose of Christmas. It may not be set on the anniversary of Christ's birth, it is certainly and specifically supposed to celebrate that event. Also, I believe celebrating Christmas at the end of the year had as much to do with avoiding persecution as it did with conversion. Also, isn't it 'Kwanzaa'? Or was that a typo I saw at Hallmark? ------------------ RealGM Rockets Draft Obligations Summary http://www.gaffordstudios.cjb.net/
I FIND IT FUNNY THAT A NEWSPAPER WOULD TAKE A MORAL STAND ON USING CHRISTMASS IN ITS CLASSIFIEDS, BUT ALLOWS BI MALE NON SMOKERS TO SEEK LOVE IN THE PERSONALS. NOTE: i have no idea if the chronicle has personals(im in NY), but it sounds like a business decision. its all about letter count. ------------------ Hanta-Force Paintball http://www.hanta-force.com
Damn Outlaw. You're quick; I know I had that edited two minutes after I hit "send." ------------------ stop posting my damn signature
Jeff, JuanValdez is right. It is a private company. If you didn't like their policy then you should've taken your business elsewhere. They said they wouldn't charge you, but it was their policy to spell out the entire word, so how is this a problem for you? It is a problem for many Christians for it to be spelled Xmas, even though there are many legitimate reasons why it should not offend them. I know the reasons, and it still offends me, because regardless of the literal background of the word, in today's world it is still in essence taking the Christ out of Christmas. It does so, because the vast majority of people do not know what the "X" stands for, but the vast majority of people also only see the letters X M A S, and there's no "Christ" in there. It's an easy way for non-Christians to still celebrate the Christmas holidays without having to think about it's religious background. They can still have their tree (germanic celt symbol), presents, family meals, etc. ---------------------------- outlaw, Interesting. So, you're saying that a person/company who is a Democrat or a liberal would not have such a policy? hmmmmmm.... I bet your wrong on that one. ------------------ "I have a DREAM.........his name's Hakeem." DREAMer's Rocket Page
I say it is a Business Decision in this sense If 70~80% of your clients like CHRISTmas then you don't wanna piss them off. I hate that the Chron is a monopoly in houston anyway. I think I'll be celebrating Kwanzaa [yes with 2 A's] and probably Christmas Rocket River ------------------
DREAMer, excellent point, in principle. That's how capitalism works. However, it doesn't work as well when the business you're referring to bought out their only real competition some years back and shut them down. In this case, where do you take your business? Jeff, at first glance it seems silly to me as well that the Chronicle would enforce such a rule in the classifieds (from their own staff writers, sure, but from the general public?). Odd. On the other hand, though I don't have any problem with the abbreviation X-mas personally, I can understand how it might be offensive to those who hold the occasion to be a holy one. I'm sure this was not a issue that was weighed lightly before making it a policy. I'm surprised and encouraged actually that the Chronicle is forcing the full spelling but not charging for it. Good for them (seriously - I find the Chron to be guilty of monopolistic price gouging usually). That seems like a very good compromise to me. If they'd tried to stick you with extra charges as a result of this policy, it would have stunk of pure greed. ------------------
Interesting points all. DREAMer: I think ChrisP made the point that the Chron, in essence, is a monopoly. If you want good ad coverage for things like this, it is the only choice. However, I do recognize their right to do whatever they choose as a private company. I understand that people can be offended by it but let's be realistic. Like someone else mentioned, they don't have a problem with personals for homosexuals and I would think that could be just as if not more offensive to Christians. Maybe not. It may not be set on the anniversary of Christ's birth, it is certainly and specifically supposed to celebrate that event. Also, I believe celebrating Christmas at the end of the year had as much to do with avoiding persecution as it did with conversion. Juan: It is know in modern times for the birth of Christ but was not always known for that and many people around the world celebrate this time of year for various reasons. Moving the holiday to December wasn't done for conversion but rather as a way to overshadow the current winter celebrations by pagan religions in Europe. When the church formed a strategic political alliance with the Roman empire and, later the British, it used its influence to encourage their subjects to celebrate Christmas instead of the Winter Solstice. Of course, religion was mandatory at the time. ------------------ Mmmmmmm. Sacrelicious.
Jeff, You know the difference in those two instances as well as I do. Instance 1 - Christmas vs. X-mas: We've already discussed. But, basically they believe using "X-mas" is taking the religious connotation out of the word. Plus, it is changing a holy celebration. Instance 2 - Gay personal ads: Um, how is this in any way changing a religious holiday? No, many religious people may not agree with the homosexual lifestyle, but it's still not infringing upon or changing their religion / religious holiday in any way. Since there are gay personal ads in the Chronicle, "if there's any doubt whether the Chron is a LIBERAL company, this proves it." Okay, now do we see how silly that original statement was? (No, not by you Jeff) -------------------------------- vj23k, But, not the ones at the churches.... Besides, since when did "stores" have anything to do with the holy celebration of the birth of Christ? ------------------ "I have a DREAM.........his name's Hakeem." DREAMer's Rocket Page
vegetarians celebrate Christmas? I thought that was a holiday for turkey eaters. ------------------ There are 3 kinds of lies: lies, lies, and heypeeisms. -DrofDunkingDonuts
Jeff, Greensheet (Good coverage, b/c it has local distribution) The Leader (Even better concentrated local readership) The Houston Press (If you want to go with a company with a more liberal ideology) I see you put the disclaimer "good ad coverage" in there. Which, means to me that you sacrificed your principles to "the man" to get ad space for your garage sale...... Maybe, I'm being a little harsh with you, Jeff. But, I just find it silly that you somehow feel slighted, just because the Chronicle felt it was better to keep the word intact, for whatever reasons. If they had forced you to pay for the extra words, then you would've had a complaint. But, I really do think you are being overzealous in your attempt to find something wrong with this situation. ------------------ "I have a DREAM.........his name's Hakeem." DREAMer's Rocket Page
Thats bogus, my opinion of the chronicle has lowered. ------------------ Ceo of the Walt Williams fan club. Web site coming soon atheistalliance.org
