Media treatment of Lebron James and Yao Ming

I think ignorance. People have a lot longer and better look at James. Before Yao's draft few had really been able to see him play with any kind of regularity.

 

Media always want to make money, a hometown hero is good for the league, good for media to make money, especially after Jordan left NBA.

James seems have lot of talent, but after watching his game, I doubt he will be better than Amare in his Rookie season.

However, as I know, they both have serious family issues, right now Amare handle it well and hope James can do it well also.

 

you know. this thread is kind of redundant. there is no point in repeating it all over again.

Yao was compared to Shawn Bradley, Jon Koncak, or etc. But most in the nba actually thought he couldn't even play well against those scrubs. i remember accidentally turning to espn when around the horn was on, these analysts all saying he would get beat up by bradley and get taught a lesson by that stick figure. even bob ryan, the guy who thought yao had a good future ahead, said bradley would teach yao a lesson. and the rest as we all know is history. some other guy on that show from dallas morning news: bob cowlishaw said " i agree, shawn bradley is new and improved, he's gonna beat the crap out of yao or something along those lines." another guy, what's his name J.A. Adande from the LA TIMES said bradley can get a little mean with those sharp elbows, yao ming is too "SOFT." smirk appears on my face, cough cough LOL that was the first time, i actually watched yao play and i was cracking up watching yao dunk on bradley who actually has longer arms and is about 1 inch taller than yao. that was the funniest game of the season. if only yao played like that all the time.

as for whatever the reason was yao ming was underestimated, it's pretty obvious, there is a bias against fill in the blank. i don't have any time for a long debate about those type of issues.

 

Experts don't know squat!!

 

Newgirl,

It's a complex issue, but I have a different angle on the issue.

The comparisons exist because of Sportscenter and because of US culture. The US media panders to the lowest common denominator - the lowest level of intellect. So, ESPN is filled with soundbites, generalizations, and highlights. One of the fastest ways to convey information is through analogies and labels. The next MJ. The next Bradley. The next Marino. The next whatever. "Soft." Anything to compartmentalize information in a way to get the attention of your average (or below average) intellect. Sportscenter is based on that concept, which has become very successful. Sometimes, the analogies, comparisons and labels are ultimately correct. However, the analysis is thin and the ultimate correctness is nothing more than fortunate happenstance.

Let's take up your specific examples. In fairness, there have been few people in the history of basketball that are physically similar to Yao. Accordingly, the comparisons to Bradley, Muresan, Bol, Smits, and Sampson were inevitable and I think somewhat logical. However, the problem with the media is that too often, the analysis was shallow and never went past the physical similarities. When you have shallow analysis like that, it begs the question: is the comparison being made simply because Yao is a non african-american basketball player? Is Yao being labeled another goofy non-black guy that is soft, can't jump and can't play? Again, in fairness, some analysts did go farther and still concluded that yao wouldn't be much more than Smits. The fact that they were wrong doesn't mean that they just slapped a label on Yao and stuck him on the Smits shelf. They were just wrong.

Taking it a step further, if Yao had played even 1 year of legit college hoops, I think people would have been more inclined to compare him to McHale and Duncan . . . the two best "non-athletic" big men perhaps in the history of the league. Analysts would have focused on Yao's fundamentals and skills. There was plenty of reason for people to doubt Yao. Some of them doubted him for the right reasons, others doubted him based on a cursory label and little more.

As for Lebron, there are many people that he is physically similar to. Who shall the media choose? Trajic or Bill Willoughby (sp?). Since Lebron's game is the kind that America is used to admiring, the kind that gets on Sportscenter, the comparison to Trajic or Dominique or whoever, is inevitable.

Hypothetical: what if Yao were 6-9 with mad hops and handles. what if Lebron was 7-6 with mr. fundamental type game? Yao would have recieved much friendlier comparisons. I think Lebron would have been compared to Duncan. Unfortunately, that hypothetical shows that the media and analysts slap on labels without too much thought.

 

Or, it could simply be because few had actually seen Yao before the Rockets, while people were paying to see Lebron live or on ESPN.

 

That's just the way people are. They pay attention to those who are in the spotlight and getting the most attention. While it is a weak argument, it is a TRUE argument. If anyone doesnt think that ESPN has bolstered Lebron's stock considerably, they're crazy. In today's society, people are starting to judge people more on their reputation and highlights opposed to true talent. I mean, just consider the fact that most NBA players have doubt in Lebron's skills, while the media and fans love the kid just because he has great dunks and is on ESPN 24/7. That's just how it is.

 

Extremely tall centers (for the most part) always seem to have their careers shortened due to injury. The odds of a HS player turning into a superstar are much higher than a 7'3 plus guy. Just look at the top 20 scorers in the NBA, and see how many of those guys came to the NBA straight out of High School.

People are just playing the law of averages...

 

anybody who has watched asian athletes in other sports such as baseball would know that the stereotype that asians are not athletic follows asians everywhere, whether its baseball or basketball. ichiro suzuki who played for the seattle mariners and eventually won mvp and rookie of the year was doubted by a lot of people as well. on espn, they had their own version of charles barkley say that if ichiro is leading the league in batting average at the end of the season, that he would run around times square naked. turns out ichiro led the league in batting avg and stolen bases and led his team to a 116 win season. only the espn analyst who dissed ichiro didn't pay up. at least barkley kissed kenny's a$$ like he promised. almost every scout in the major leagues said ichiro was overhyped and nothing special. turns out the guy had one of the strongest throwing arms in baseball and was a gold glove rightfielder. when hideo nomo first came to the US and succeeded, a lot of people considered that a fluke. but many more asian pitchers have made it to the mlb and they have also succeeded winning rookie of the years in consecutive years at one point if i remember correctly. people even got mad that asians were winning rookie of the year awards too many times and started making excuses about how they were older and etc. sound familiar. they do the same **** with yao. even though yao is only 22, they make it seem like amare 20 is so much younger than him. another asian baseball player who's korean, who's playing for the chicago cubs, first baseman hee seop choi also faced discrimination, i've done some searches on that guy and i always find some old articles making fun of the guy's ethnicity. now that the guy's playing well and hitting homeruns and is a candidate for rookie of the year, people in chicago are starting to take notice that the guy isn't just some novelty and they see he's actually one of the best young power hitters in the league. he's helped the cubs actually have a winning record this season. the ugly truth is that asians will always be labeled and stereotyped when they are first introduced until they actually prove they're good.

there are some theories as to why asians got this weak reputation. some say that the early chinese who first came here had to take jobs doing laundry and cooking aka women's duties, (jobs that no men would do) gave them a reputation for being weak. even though those were the only types of the jobs they could get. after that, they started the chinese exclusion act that prevented chinese from coming to the country cause they were starting to make money. even so, they couldn't own property.

chinese exclusion act- Any of several acts forbidding the immigration of Chinese laborers into the United States, originally from 1882 to 1892 by act of May 6, 1882, then from 1892 to 1902 by act May 5, 1892. By act of April 29, 1902, all existing legislation on the subject was re["e]nacted and continued, and made applicable to the insular possessions of the United States.

anybody who thinks the US doesn't have a history of discrimination against asians needs to check the above definition.

the so called height discrimination is not the issue. the above makes it obvious. not that i'm complaining or anything.

 

The Media has hyped up Lebron James so much that in their eyes he cann't fail. Did anyone see the McDonalds Dunk Contest. Lebron had easy non spectacular dunks and still won. Even though his competitors were much more creative and in my opinion had better dunks. Hype means a lot in this world and James has it. Perhaps it because he is born in the United States therefore the media see it as our prodigy. Compared to Yao Ming who will always be considered a foreigner. What ever the case, James is good enough to play in the NBA but how much he truely dominates will be based on 2 factors 1) How much money he brings to the NBA [never doubt the power of economics] 2) And how much raw talent and composure he really has.

 

once again.... precedence.


there is a positive precedent for players with lebron james' alleged skill set.


there was only a negative precedent for players with yao ming's alleged skill set.

 

Spiral,

I agree that there some racial stereotyping. We can reasonably disagree as to how big a part that played with Yao, but it's only a part. The two points I made are inescapable:

1. it is understandable that people compared Yao to players that came before him that are physically similar. I think you lose credibility if you discount this factor entirely. You can minimize it, but don't discount it. It's just unfotunate that the most recent of the 7 foot plus people were just not that good.

2. what if Yao was 6-9 and had incredible athleticism? he would have been compared to those that he is physically similar to. You wouldn't be complaining then.

Can you honestly say that there was no factual basis for comparing Yao to Bradley? Reasonable people might disagree about whether Yao would be better than Bradley, but there was clearly a sufficient factual basis for the comparison.

I won't dismiss the racial stereotyping as non-existent. I think it plays a factor, sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on the speaker and depth of analyis. But let's not make everything about that. Again, I think people lose credibility if they discount salient facts altogether.

The focus should be on how people overcome whatever unfair obstacles exist by virtue of their hard work, determination, talent and force of will. This is what makes Yao internationally beloved.

 

first of all, i'm not even talking about the comparisons to shawn bradley. i read articles in the newspapers and saw tv media laughing at the ethnic jokes about him, which called the guy an overgrown chinese delivery boy, somebody who makes them dumplings and egg rolls and what not. they could have made fun of yao's height itself, but they chose to make fun of his ethnicity. there would be no problem if they just made fun of him personally, but they made it a racial issue, by talking about the race part. it's not like i'm complaining about the racial part. i just find it funny how people can still deny that there was anything racial about it when they typed it nice and neat for everybody to read. it's obvious to anybody who didn't just ignore it.

and the height thing is obviously not the problem, when asians players who are regular size like 6'0 or 6'5 get discriminated in other sports all the time.

part of the reason people started to like yao was because everybody doubted him. but when people started to compliment him, everybody started to not like him as much and say he was overhyped.

 

Spiral,

The point of Newgirl's thread was to discuss the Yao/Bradley comparison and James/Magic comparison, not to broadly grind the racism axe. Your posts first addressed typecasting of asian atheletes (which I still think ignores some salient factual basis for the yao/bradley comparison) and then extended to some other stuff.

As for this other stuff you're talking about, I think any semi-educated person would agree with you that it's just pure ignorance. To say that Yao will stink because he is tall and lanky like Bradley is based on many legitimate facts and may be based in part on stereotyping. To make jokes about egg rolls and garbage like that has no legitimate factual basis and is just garbage.

I think you have good intentions and believe in a true and just point. I make a living debating points of law and policy. I think you would serve your cause better if you used a scalpel, instead of a broadsword, in making your arguments.

 

There are numerous reasons for this, Newgirl.

Some are fair, others are not. Some a biased reasons, others are not. Some are myopic, others are not. Some are stupid others are not. Some are informed reasons, others are not. The list goes on. Get my drift?

In all fairness, I believe the 2002 pre draft were not "fair" compared to this years in relation to Yao and LeBron. But we can change anything. Hopefully the media may have learnt a few things about temperance, common sense, respect, understanding, acceptance and fairness in the future in dealing with people of other nationals or races (thanks to the great exploits of Nomo, Nakata, Yao, Ichiro, BK Kim, Sosa, Hakeem, Clemete etc.).

In fairness though, the US media is still one of the best (fairest) out there IMHO.

 

I also think it has to do with straight-up racism. the commentators took one look at this 7-5 skinny Chinese dude, and thought, "This dude's gonna bang with Shaq? He'll break!" None of them took him seriously, because who in the United States had ever heard of a Chinese basketball superstar? The couple that came over before Yao really didn't make a huge splash, and now this lanky guy was the 1st round pick.

Being a journalist, I can tell you that sportsWRITERS are chosen for their writing ability, not their vast knowledge of the game (this comes from their time on the job). The guys on TV are just there because they're ex-players people recognize or look attractive enough to talk into a camera. Most are just chumps who watch a lot of games on tv, no more experts than the folks on this board.

 

Ignorance was certainly a factor. I, for once, was skeptical about Yao before I ever watched him play. I thought the best he would be was a taller version of Wang Zhi Zhi (good shooting, but slow, soft, and no D).

But for those who actually saw him play, there was still the factor of how aspects of the game weigh in their judgment. Athleticism is always highly valued in American basketball. It has always tacitly taken a role higher than attributes such as fundamentals, court visions, intelligence, etc. This bias toward athleticism is clearly illustrated in Stoudemire's winning the ROY over Yao. (While I am livid about Yao's getting snub, I don't think the bias is so much about racel as about the over-value of athleticism.)

Athleticism is born with, they reason, whereas the other things can be learned later. That might be true. But they never stop and evaluate how important athleticism is in term of being a successful basketball player. How many of the legendary superstars in the NBA history are athletic freaks? The only ones that came to my mind were Jordan, Dr. J, Baylor, and maybe Hakeem.

On the other hand, many of the best players, past and present, are not very athletic: Bird, Magic, Moses, McHale, Stockton, Kidd, West, and even Kareem. I say among the greatest basketball players, there are at least as many non-athletic as athletic.

Athleticism obviously gives you some advantage. But I think it's been largely overrated. At the highest competition level, smart and fundamentals are more important.

 

i don't think you read the initial post by newgirl which was talking about the media treatment of the two. she was not comparing yao to bradley. she was talking about media treatment and how one person can be compared to has-beens, while the other is being compared to a star. and since some people believe its a height discrimination, i just showed you that asian athletes are all given the same type of weak label treatment . every scouting report underestimates their strength from what it actually is. all of them have been called weaker than their american counterparts, which makes it extra dramatic when they prove them wrong. it also makes for great entertainment value. correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't mark cuban also claim that yao wasn't even as good as shawn bradley before yao beat the stuffing out of stickboy.

"To say that Yao will stink because he is tall and lanky like Bradley is based on many legitimate facts and may be based in part on stereotyping."

yao's body looks nothing like bradley. anybody who looks at the two can tell the difference. if you looked faraway at yao, he would look like a 6'6 guy, cause his body is proportioned like a regular guy. yao has better footwork and is a better defensive player than bradley even though yao's arms are shorter and yao's overall height is actually 1 inch shorter than bradley. yao is also much quicker and athletic compared to bradley. could shawn bradley defend alonzo mourning in the olympics at age 19 or 18? i think not. why yao's positive performance was neglected back then and treated as a total unproven stiff waiting to happen shows the bias.

bradley looks like a 7'6 guy, his body is not proportioned evenly. he's also skinnier than yao is. bradley eats a lot of junk food from what i hear and the guy still can't gain weight. the only reason yao is skinny is cause he didn't eat nearly as much before. yao's legs are stronger and he's quicker. some have said yao runs like a small forward when he actually tries to run hard. yao's stamina is a problem right now because he's been playing so long.

but the initial post was not comparing yao and bradley. if that were the case, there is no comparison. bradley was never stereotyped as a stiff even though manute bol and gheorge muresan came before him. so that brings the question why yao is stereotyped as such? and the answer is obvious because its done in every other sport with asians. regardless of how many proven asian athletes there are, the natural impulse that people have is to believe the asian is weak since the images in most peoples minds when they think asian is cook and laundry cleaner and r****ded kung fu comedian.

really, you're a lawyer? my cause? i'm not arguing about anything. i'm just stating the facts. it's not like i'm getting angry over this racial bs. it happens all the time.