I dunno, I'm biased as a Catholic, religious person, but I have always understood right from wrong. I have always grown up with assault rifles, knives, hell I could have gotten my hands on an illegal live grenade. You don't think I've never been pissed off at someone? I could have been the most celebrated mass murderer of all time if I wanted too. ..Believe me it would have been easy at my sorry high school..but I have always, always known right from wrong. At 28, I'm kinda old from a lot of the youngters now days. Maybe I'm "old school", but I grew up with the understanding that weapons should ONLY be for self-defense, and hunting. In self-defense, the term is exclusive to protecting yourself or your loved ones' lives from definite, imminent serious harm/death from others. But I digress, what has helped me cope with the problems of the world is prayer. I don't go to church every Sunday like I should, but I pray daily. It really works. It's only positive. Maybe, just maybe, we should reintroduce this lost artform of yesteryore to the present. In a prior thread Behad wondered why I was thinking about Rockets future rather than Rockets present, and as much as I would like to argue with him, he is right! It just makes more sense to talk about what the Rockets are doing now. But you know what is more important than the Rockets' future?...It's our childrens future. I have a two year old daughter who I love more than life itself. I pray that she can go to school and have fun with no worry. I look in her happy, smiling face and I realize how fragile life is. I'll be honest, my greatest fear is losing her. I think that is every parents greatest fear. I don't like the trend I am seeing. It's funny how kids make you see things differently... ------------------ Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing!
Maybe we should bring Hammurabi's Code back to schools. That'll straighten out the little whippersnappers.
People are allowed to pray in school. What's not allowed is making other people listen to your choice of prayer. How would you like it if you were forced to listen to a Heaven's Gate or David Koresh prayer everyday in school? Or what about if the only prayer was a Muslim or Hindi prayer? You probably wouldn't care for it much (at least, I know I wouldn't). Similarly, someone else may not appreciate being forced to hear your version of prayer every day because they may have different beliefs than you. You can easily accomplish what you suggest legally by creating a non-religous "prayer" of sorts -- similar to when kids recite the Pledge of Allegiance or something like that. This can be done in the form of a school song or soemthing like that. But when you add God into it, all you're doing is opening the door for serious problems, in my opinion. ------------------ http://www.swirve.com ... more fun than a barrel full of monkeys and midgets. [This message has been edited by shanna (edited March 05, 2001).]
FWIW, the God part wasn't in the original version of the pledge. it was added in 1954, probably because of the cold war. ------------------
it is pretty sad they don't even say the Pledge of Aligence anymore. ------------------ Nice guys finish last ... and im surely not going to finish last!
yes i did. thanks. it's no big deal though. speaking as a gay atheist, i would be very uncomortable with any mix of religion and public education. ------------------
Why? It is a stupid, meaningless oath of "allegience." What, because if this isn't ingrained into children's heads they will all turn into traitors that will sell out the US to the highest bidder? Does it instill more pride? The fact that most children do not even know what the words mean and when they are old enough to understand it has become trite and tired is good? Pledge recital was a waste of our time. I would rather be learning, imagine that! ------------------ Take an object. Do something to it. Do something else to it. " " " " "
Moestavern19's totally biased Christian Sermon "You people wonder why 15 year olds know more about sex , drugs , and guns then you do . Whether you like it or not the basis of America was founded by Christian Puritans who moved here to have religious freedom . Immigrants came here to be free from Communist and other dictatorships . Prayer was removed from Schools for one reason "the clause about Separation of Church and state supposedly in the United States Constitution. Separation of Church and state was merely a statment Thomas Jefferson made in a letter to a Baptist Church to oppose Strict Christian influence in Politics . the Bottom line is because you took God out of The schools , All hell can , will , and has broke lose in the School system . I love my country , it's the Goverment Im afraid of . this has been Moestavern19's totally biased Christian Sermon , To bash this statement click the reply with quote button above this post . Join us next week when Moestavern19 rips apart The IRS . ------------------ Church-Going-Foul-mouthed-Pig-Loving Rocket-Fan extrodinaire.
ARE YOU SERIOUS?? I did not know this I'm 29 and my son is only 3 so . . . Man . . Rocket River ------------------
To be clear, the vast majority of our founding fathers were Diests and they left Europe to escape religious persecution under the Catholic Church of England. Yes, some Puritans came to America, but most of them resisted organized government. And, communism didn't even exist until the early 1900's well after the massive immigration we saw into America between the 1700's and 1900. ------------------ Onions is all I eat!
Corporal punishment also was removed Prayer alone did not instill Respect of teachers HEll . . .parents rarely respect teachers why should kids Teachers underpaid. NO RESPECT and the catchal for the troubles I solve the problem 1. give teachers a raise [so we can get and keep the best] 2. Bring back corporal punishment We are such KNEEJERKs one teacher turns up to be a pediphile or an abuser .. .we throw the baby out with the bath water . . . . Rocket River ------------------
My dad is a middle school principal...and he still paddles kids every day... ------------------ Who's ya daddy?
Not trying to take DUKE's thunder, but YOU speak the truth, Moestavern19. I am having serious hesitations about my daughter being introduced to the public school system. I understand there are different religions, and all, but what I really understand is I benefit from my Christian religion. My family benefits from our belief. The school shootings we hear about is an evil act. If it isn't evil, what else would you call it?..There are people who say something foolish like: It's the gun. Take away the gun and the problem is solved. NO! I don't care if every pistola, rifle, hangun on this planet is vanished, you will still have something that will take its place, whether it be more bombings, kniving, assaulting, whatever..something will, and surely take its place. The end result? The end result is more of your rights and priviledges taken away AND STILL degradation of the world!!! I don't know about you, but I don't want this. It starts with people. A person who knows right from wrong can have 50 guns in the house and will never, ever commit an act of irresponsibility. A person who knows right from wrong will apologize to someone (regardless of who he is, even someone who is completely different) if he feels he has done wrong. A person knowing right and wrong will sense temptation and resist taken the dark, selfish road. - These things from the above paragraph have nothing to do with religion, but if you look closer they actually do..My point is that we all, regardless of our background must find agreement on what is right and what is wrong. I don't think this is all that difficult, but maybe I am oversimplifying something as plain as right and wrong. ------------------ Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing! [This message has been edited by ROXRAN (edited March 05, 2001).]
yeah, Christians never commit acts of violence...if anything introducing prayer back into schools will cause even more problems by ostracizing the non-Christian students and creating even more division within the student population. ------------------
I actually depart from liberals on this issue. Repression never did me any harm (I finally ceased to include "stop masturbating" as one of my guilt ridden New Year's resolutions, but that's a different topic). The goals that you want Roxran, can't be achieved in the current reading of the Constitution. I would tease you about using the Constitution when it suits you and abandoning it when it doesn't, but I'm going to try to agree w/ you for a second. The problem with the current "moment of silence" mumbo jumbo is that there's no accountability to an authority figure. Kids are allowed to pursue their prayers on their own, but be realistic... these kids are probably staring around the room or picking their noses. Enter a big governmental plan. If their is a kid from Turkey in your class, there's probably an Eastern Orthodox church close by. There is a Mosque in every city, or one coming soon. Synagogues are everywhere. The Church is everywhere. LDS wards are fairly commonplace. Hell in Utah, kids walk across the street for their religious classes everyday. In short, if you practice a certain faith (even non theistic religions ) you more than likely live close to your place of worship. If you don't shut up, b/c you don't care anyway. Anyway, you can all see where this plan is going. In my plan, I don't particularly care what the Constitution says. It's a breathing document, and it doesn't trump common sense. If you have to make a new amendment, make a new amendment. Anyway (again), each school could categorize their students into different faiths based on labels the parents have created. That school and local place of worship could establish a roving time (daily, every two days, etc.) for those parishoners to come to the school and hold prayer. Children of Atheists or non represented faiths could stay in home room, go to a fake session managed by a teacher (to offset the scorn of other children), or whatever. Nietzsche's definition of the noble man was based on a Western (read Christian) ideal, so Atheists' kids would probably best be served in their formative years by learning about everlasting punishment. Hell, it worked for me. They can think for themselves later on in life when they've learned that other people count b/c other people count. In youth, it's all about damnation vs. eternal bliss. Ideas? Ridicule? Realize that any pragmatic issue of religious representation can be taken care of. If Father O'Connor is sick on Tuesday, then noone of any faith prays on Tuesday. It certainly beats the alternative that we have now. The best thing to come out of this is that our spiritual leaders will be earning the money they pilfer from the tithings/offerings. BTW, I (for those that don't know) am an Atheist. I guess I'm also a Humanist, a Unitarian Universalist, a Liberal Quaker and a Theravadan Buddhist. ------------------ I'd rather be boinking my wife.
To all Parents, The lack of morality in America is appalling. It's the Democrats' fault. It's the liberal media's fault. It's all because we don't allow prayer in school. We have to stop the liberal media from influencing our children. We have to have prayer in school to instill religion in our children. We must not allow any opposing viewpoint to reach our children. We must instill Christianity during school hours, when our children are away from us, and subject to outside influences. If we can prevent the liberals media from influencing our children, and mandate Christianity in schools, we conservative parents will have complete control over our children's minds. By supressing all opposing viewpoints, we can ensure that our children will think exactly like we do. If we allow the liberal media to reach our children, if we allow them to drift into atheism at school, they may fall prey to these vulgar temptations, and we may lose them. As Parents, we cannot allow this to happen. We must take action to prevent all opposing viewpoints from reaching our children. -A Concerned Parent
