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mar1juana study (just for you, T_J)

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by GladiatoRowdy, Sep 12, 2003.

  1. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    mar1juana as Budget Saver? Study Looks at Implications of
    Legalization in Massachusetts
    http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/302/mironstudy.shtml

    Massachusetts has a $3 billion state budget deficit, Gov. Mitt Romney and the legislature are battling over multi-million cuts in education funding, and heroin users are dying at a record pace while tight times shrink the number of treatment beds by half. The Bay State budget, like those of about 40 other states, has been hit hard by tough economic times and could use some help. Boston University economist Dr. Jeffrey Miron has a simple, if only partial, solution: Legalize mar1juana.

    In a study commissioned by the Massachusetts-based mar1juana reform advocacy group Change the Climate (http://www.changetheclimate.org) and released September 5, Miron reported that legalizing mar1juana in Massachusetts would save the state as much as $138 million per year. That translates to the salary equivalent of about 2,300 Massachusetts police, firefighters, or teachers. The report, "The Budgetary Implications of mar1juana Legalization in Massachusetts," estimates that the state could save $120.6 million in criminal justice costs by regularizing the herb and generate an additional $16.9 million in tax revenues on the legalized pot commerce.

    Miron does not delve into the pros or cons of mar1juana prohibition -- only the budgetary impact. In the study's executive summary, he writes, "The report is not an overall evaluation of mar1juana prohibition; the magnitude of any budgetary impacts does not by itself determine the wisdom of prohibition. But the costs required to enforce prohibition, and the transfers that occur because income generated in the mar1juana sector is not taxed, are relevant to rational discussion of this policy."

    And Miron parses those costs and transfers carefully, albeit with a relatively simple and conservative set of assumptions. For instance, to determine police costs in enforcing mar1juana prohibition, Miron calculated the number of mar1juana arrests, their percentage of all arrests, and the cost per arrest for police agencies. He discounted two-thirds of all mar1juana arrests as not "stand alone," or being arrests where other criminal behavior was the cause of arrest. Still, the study found that Massachusetts law enforcement agencies spend $40.3 million just to arrest pot smokers and dealers.

    "We looked at the reduction in expenditures in criminal justice activities that would result from legalizing mar1juana," Miron told DRCNet. "We also estimated the tax revenues Massachusetts would earn if mar1juana sales were legalized and taxed, providing that the federal government would ever allow it. "We could save about $120 million in criminal justice spending and gain those tax revenues. That's a lot of money."

    The state could also save $13.6 million spent by the Dept. of Corrections on the 10 people housed in state prison and 575 sentenced to County Corrections on mar1juana charges. That money could go a long way toward restoring $23 million in cuts to Massachusetts school districts affected by charter school enrollments. State Sen. David Magnani (D-Framingham), following a parallel path, has offered a budget amendment that would get that money back to the school districts by giving judges the ability to release nonviolent offenders who have served half their sentences.

    Or the $68.5 million that the Massachusetts judiciary and prosecutorial systems spend enforcing mar1juana prohibition could take care of it, and then some. And that, according to Miron, is only counting felony mar1juana convictions, not the misdemeanors that clog the system.

    For all the exciting budgetary implications of his report, Miron has not gotten much attention so far, nor, he said, were legislators ready to repeal prohibition. "There is not a lot of interest yet," he said, "a small story in the Boston Herald and the local NPR affiliate, WBUR, but it is starting to percolate," he said. "As for the legislature, well, there's not a lot of movement. I've talked to these guys lots of times, and I have the feeling that they think it would be perfectly okay to legalize it, but they fear their voters wouldn't go for it."

    In recent elections, Massachusetts voters in districts across the state have endorsed decriminalization or legalization proposals, but legislators still weren't sure, Miron said. "The ballot questions were non-binding and it was an off-year election, so it is hard for them to tell how representative those votes were. Still, you would think this would be a relatively receptive state."

    Change the Climate, the group which commissioned Miron's study, is working to make the state even more receptive. The group, which has done innovative mar1juana legalization ad campaigns in Boston and Washington, DC, is gearing up a new round of ads aimed at Bay State voters. Unfortunately, the campaign got off to a rocky (if subsequently well-publicized) start this week when its first billboard included a photo of a real life Massachusetts State Trooper. The trooper and his troop objected, and the billboard company, which inadvertently used the wrong photo, replaced the ad. But more are coming.

    And given Miron's results, could this weekend's pro-pot Freedom Rally on Boston Commons hear the rallying cry of fiscal conservatism?

    Visit http://www.changetheclimate.org/bu-study/mass_budget.pdf to read the study in its entirety online, and visit http://www.changetheclimate.org to view their ads and other information. Visit http://www.masscann.org for information about the Freedom Rally.
     
    #1 GladiatoRowdy, Sep 12, 2003
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2003
  2. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    Let's see, 138 million times 50 is...6.9 billion dollars at the state level alone. That would go a long way toward erasing the red ink so prevalent in the states these days.
     
  3. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Yeah, but how much would it cost for the government to control drugs, sell them, and monitor drug users?
     
  4. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    The cost would be paid for tenfold by the taxes they would charge on the dope. Kind of like how the rebuilding in Iraq is being paid for by the oil revenues!:eek: ;) :D
     
  5. DallasThomas

    DallasThomas Member

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    That's just about right.

    My biggest beef with any of these mar1juana laws is that alcohol is the one that's legal:confused:

    If you had to buy alcohol on the street corner from a drug dealer; or from one of Al Capone's subnet members like during prohibition, you would be mixing it up with the wrong crowd, screwing around like "potheads" and alcohol would be a bigger gateway drug than pot.


    If you were starting your own country today with all new laws, can anybody - from an unbiased perspective - say that, they would sit down and choose alcohol to be legal over mar1juana if you had to choose only one? Save for that crap-ass "gateway" concept with its skewed studies backing it, why would alcohol be the legal one?
     
  6. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    Who would you rather have driving the roads...someone who is drunk or someone who is high? If you conducted a test of 500 drunk people trying to drive safely and normally versus a test of 500 high people trying to drive safely and normally, then which test group do you think would make the most mistakes that lead to conclude they would have caused an accident? I think we all know the answer. While we would rather have noone driving under the influence, the high people are going to drive much better than drunk people. I would characterize the drunk person as being in a boat being pounded by waves. Their inherently tipsy. The high people are completely non-tipsy and some are probably better drivers high than they are straight. One thing I can't argue with is high people can lose some of their peripheral vision. But, that's nothing compared with what a drunk person loses. Drunk people are just all over the place. While I can't prove what I say, I believe what I say is the absolute truth.

    In summary, make alcohol illegal and legalize pot. :D

    Peace Out.
     
  7. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    I agree with the post above, but would like to expand.

    Over 80% of the street cost of illegal drugs is profit. I would have the system keep prices relatively stable, dropping overall prices only by 10% or so. That cost would go up with inflation, based on the cost of living index or some such metric. Everything over what it costs to produce turns into tax, creates jobs, and pays for the education, treatment, and distribution mechanisms I mentioned in the thread where I spelled out my plan. (I will edit and insert the link) EDIT : http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63243

    The US negotiates with producers, both domestic and worldwide, to get the best prices possible. Costs go down, deaths due to overdose and cross reaction plummet, the black market is denied it's billions, and everything left over after we pay for the system is used to provide prescription drugs for the elderly, with coverage increasing as profits do. It is all the stupid young-uns that will be using the drugs, why shouldn't their reckless behavior actually be used to pay for NECESSARY drugs for people less able to afford them?

    Even after all of that, it is likely that there would be money left over to go to the general fund to reduce the tax burden on the rest of us.
     
    #7 GladiatoRowdy, Sep 12, 2003
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2003
  8. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    In the system that I have in mind, driving under the influence of ANYTHING would be a crime, and rightly so. If you are going to get high, the place to do it is in your home or when you are not going to be driving.

    BTW, do the people who think the drug laws should stay know that there is already a breathalyzer for pot?
     
  9. SpaceCity

    SpaceCity Member

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    England is backing off on it's stance against mar1juana.

    http://news.myway.com/odd/article/id/353815|oddlyenough|09-12-2003::10:05|reuters.html

    Now we're making progress. Maybe our government should take note.

    This is happening in Canada also, if I am not mistaken.
     
  10. bnb

    bnb Member

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    We're doing what we can...but big brother doesn't approve...

    U.S. warns Canada against easing pot laws

    EDIT -- andy: you might find the story, and the link mar1juana Laws interesting -- more ammo for your crusade...
     
    #10 bnb, Sep 12, 2003
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2003
  11. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    How's that different from my system? DUI-ing is still illegal in my system. It's just alcohol is now illegal and pot is legal. Pot would have certain other restrictions of course as to where you can use and where you cannot use. I would venture a guess that the majority of your law breaking DUI-ers are then going to be high on pot and, as a result, more accidents are avoided because... well...drunk people drive like shiyat.

    It's all BS anyway. It will never happen.
     
  12. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    I appreciate it, I have known about this for quite some time. They have been pushing and pulling over this issue since the late 90s.

    I get a weekly newsletter that talks about prohibition. www.drcnet.org. They don't spam outrageously and the newsletter is delivered Fridays. They have an archive from '97 of all of them and it is great reading for anyone against prohibition.
     
  13. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    It will if you help to get the people close to you to vote about it, especially if you are young. Young people are the single most underrepresented group when it comes to political activity, and drug users even more so. It will take a large movement, but there are an estimated 70 million drug users out there (more if you include alcohol) that could create a movement that Paul Bunyon would be proud to shovel lime over, so to speak. :eek: LOL
     

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