Still amazed at how good these playoffs have been for a hoops junkie, it still rattles me when I see Euro's like Okur and Manu contribute to contending teams while Nachbar couldn't play on a lotto team. I first looked at the players at their position and maybe thought they were better than the guys ahead of them. I look at Sa and although manu comes off the bench, Popovich could have easily taken the high rd and played steve smith or Danny Ferry at the 3,but he went with the energetic, full court player like Manu. I look at Det and Carisle could easily stick with Cliff Robinson or Corliss, but he added the x factor in Okur. I look atthe Rockets and who is just that better than Nachbar where he couldn't get anytime?Hawkins?Morris?Rice? Why wasn't Posey ever slid to the 2 to give Cat some rest while allowing Nachbar some game to help fill that void when they couldn't throw it in the ocean? Why was it so patternistic to justify Moochies contract by sliding Francis to the 2 so Norris could get some run? It just really irritates me to see Nachbar play less this yr than Okur,Manu or even Tito f******g Maddox a 2nd rd pick who didn't even hardly play his only yr in school. It will continue to baffle me until the start ofnext season.
Rudy babies players. He doesn't want them to cry. So he babies them. I'm sure he's asked Nachbar if his "tummy hurts." Then excused them from practice. Heh...
Nachbar like alot of euros have been playing against men since they were 14-15 yrs old. If they have trouble competing, then you drafted the wrong player.
Ok well before you bash Rudy lets ask this question...has anything you've seen from Nachbar's game resembled the game of those guys? Also, in case you forgot Manu isn't a Euro. Second, Manu is fast...Boki simply is not. Even when Manu was hurting at the beginning of the season and still trying to find his rhythm you could see that he had some talent and that he could compete. Now tell me when you have seen that from Boki. I haven't seen it. Also, Manu can play defense....Boki doesn't even know what that word means. I asked him "Boki do you know what defense is?" He said "Defense? Is there where you let the other team score fast so you can get the ball back?" and I said "Yes, Boki it is" I didn't want to hurt his feelings. Anyhow...your 2nd point about him not being the right draft pick may have been the more correct thing to say. I mean what do you want the Rockets to do? Just throw guys in there for the hell of it? Also...Boki did not play more than Maddox. Hell Boki even started a game. If you are going to complain at least get the facts straight. Maddox played 35 minutes and Boki played 72 minutes with one game started.
The thing is like all rookies and the developement of players is, how do you know how they respond in game situations? How do you know how fast Nachbar is? How do you know any of this you're trying to tell me about a player who didn't even play at all? Before the draft, everyone was saying that he was one of the most nba ready players in the draft. He's supposed to be a slasher,full court type of player with a great mid range game. Where did all of this go in the course of a season. Glen Rice can't defend and neither can Francis, but somehow Glen Rice tends to make his way on the court. I'm willing to bet that Steve Smith is probably the 2nd or 3rd best shooter on the spurs, but how much time does he get? Manu like Nachbar probably brings a more rounded faster paced environment to the team like Posey did. In some of those losses, especially the bad losses , why where Mobley and Francis still in the game? Why were any starters in the game in the 4th qt down 20 with 3 1/2 minutes left? It just makes no sense.
Ok...you do realize Boki did play this year. Did you even watch him when he did play? I did. I watched only him and no one else on the court. The guy was slow on defense and offense, he looked like a scared dog when he was playing offense, and his defense was to let the guy get past him and then foul him. No, I don't know Boki's times running a 40, but you can tell he is not fast, kind of like you can tell that Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili are fast by watching them. You can also tell that Manu had talent even before he got comfortable in game situations, kind of like how you could tell Yao had talent in those preseason games. Those guys just looked like they belong out there with their presence and the actions they were taking when they were playing. Boki just looked lost. You do remember Rudy tried to give him a little time early in the season, but I think for Boki's sake he did the right thing and kept him on the bench so he didn't continue to embarrass himself. And those same draft reports that said Boki was NBA ready were the same ones that said Yao was a MAJOR project, so take that for what it is worth. Rice gets on the court because the guy is a veteran who knows how to play. Francis is one of the best offensive players in the game and his defense is not completely terrible. He still gets steals and has the speed to defend his men. He just makes bad decisions. And wtf does Steve Smith have to do with anything? Are you comparing him to Glen Rice? Because if you are then you need to compare the fact that the Spurs have a better roster than us, especially at the 2/3. Anyhow...Boki might be the best pure shooter on our team, but does it matter? The guy can't create a shot for himself and didn't look like he had a clue what to do this year. Where are you getting that Boki brings a faster pace to the Rockets? Did you even watch him play? Can you at least agree that he is not as fast as Ginobili? And also Manu gets in games not only because of the faster pace, but because he can D up on someone. Now to that last part of why were starters in the games too long sometimes...to that I have no answer and it baffled me too.
I guess you could tell what kind of player nachbar was on those 77mins of action, 12 of which came in the 1st game of the season. He then played 12 mins in the next game and didn't see the court for 12 straight games. After those 12 games, he played 18mins in 15 games. I'm wondering how you can tell so much about a player that have been seen so little? I can count at least 8 games when the outcome was decided when he didn't even smell the floor. I'm just suprised you can tell all those thing on 77 mins of action. Thats less than 1 min a game. You must be the greatest scout in the history of sports. [/B][/QUOTE]And wtf does Steve Smith have to do with anything? Are you comparing him to Glen Rice? Because if you are then you need to compare the fact that the Spurs have a better roster than us, especially at the 2/3. [/B]
Lee, I cannot agree with you more. I just cannot. I do the same thing you are doing. That is why when they say Rudy should go, I have to concur. It is really frustrating.
I mean, developing players is just like anything else and I really don't think Rudy has done a good job at doing it. Even if you look at Horry and Cassell. Horry has stayed the same since his rookie yr, but Cassell has turned into a really,really good pg. When he was here, he had to give the ball to Hakeem and the other superstar clyde, but since he's had free reign, his fg% is up a well as his asst. He's a better pg than Francis and he was a sg in college also. Francis hasn't really goten any better since his rookie yr as far as his decision making, Mobley is a better scorer but more erratic,Eddie is stagnant and Ming was a polished product already. Its just funny how we had all these good players in front of the rookies , yet we missed the playoffs and lost a lotto pick. In all honesty, maybe Nachbar didn't or shouldn't have been playing in some of those games, but Terrance Morris whom alot of people despised last yr, played pretty good. When he went on that good shooting streak, he should have stayed in the rotation, but instead when Rice came back, he didn't get any significant minutes at all! He was playing very,very well, but his minutes went to zero. We are now looking for one of those role players, but we could have further evaluated Morris, instead we went with old slow ass glen rice and continued to play Mobley 40 minutes a night.
Lee, Am I correct that you are complaining about how Rudy handled the coaching duties during the championship years. You are a hard man to please.
No, i didn't say that, but like many said before, its easier to coach a team when you have the best player in the game. I'm simply saying, when he came in Horry started from day 1 despite going from the center position in college to sf. Cassell didn't play much his rookie yr , but once Scotty Brooks limitations were known, Rudy had to play the rookie behind Smith. By 96, Cassell was ready to take Kenny's job, but Rudy was reluctant to give it to him. The next yr, he and smith were gone . We all talked about rudy not having a penetrating pg who could create for others, but thats exactly what Cassell became once he left houston. Cassell didn't all of a sudden wake and become a penetrator and mid range shooter, thats what he was in college, but in Rudy's system, the pg was just there to drop it in to hakeem and wait for the kickout. I used to get mad as hell at all the easy dunks offs penentration Robinson used to get from Avery Johnson while Hakeem had to create everything for everyone else.
lee....you keep going around my question. tell me how you though nachbar was when he played this year. did he look as fast as manu at any point in time? did he look like he had a clue what he was doing out there? did he look like he was by any means competent on defense? did you see yao's first few games? did you notice in those limited minutes how yao just looked like he had talent? listen...i am not saying boki will not get better and i am not saying this guy can't develop into a solid player. all i am saying is don't compare the guy to manu (i cant really speak on okur because i have hardly seen him play). manu has a feel for the game, he is fast, he can play defense, he can create on offense, and he can pass well. and yes the spurs manu, bowen, jackson, malik rose is better than mobley, posey, t-mo, and hawkins.
ACK ME = r****d....I hit quote instead of edit...read this post instead. lee....you keep going around my question. tell me how you though nachbar was when he played this year. did he look as fast as manu at any point in time? did he look like he had a clue what he was doing out there? did he look like he was by any means competent on defense? did you see yao's first few games? did you notice in those limited minutes how yao just looked like he had talent? listen...i am not saying boki will not get better and i am not saying this guy can't develop into a solid player. all i am saying is don't compare the guy to manu at this point in time (i cant really speak on okur because i have hardly seen him play). manu has a feel for the game, he is fast, he can play defense, he can create on offense, and he can pass well. that is why he plays. it isn't because pop wants to throw in an x-factor or that he is happy with giving his rookies minutes so they can develop. the bottom line is the guy is playing because he is good, not because he is being given a chance. nachbar did not play because he was not ready and looked horrible out there. and yes the spurs manu, bowen, jackson, malik rose is better than mobley, posey, t-mo, and hawkins.
Moochie was not ready and looked horrible out there but that did not stop Rudy from playing him a ridiculous amount of minutes...
Robbie. I’ve seen them play both many times (Nachbar and Ginobili) in Europe. You talk about Boki like is some talent-less punk that shouldn’t ever came to NBA. Nachbar played the same league as Manu, had same stats and had been one of the most promising players in Europe. I wonder what would happen if the Spurs had drafted Nachbar and the Rockets Manu…
This is laughable. Yao acutally looked worse the first two games than Nachbar did, bar none. He got his chance. For that matter, Manu didn't go to the Spurs and start lighting it up either. But he gradually got more and more time as the year went by and got better. This IS what hapenned to Yao, but, it was a) forced by Kelvin Cato's departure and b) forced by Yao definitely having more immediately identifiable talent pick. If it isn't obivous to everyone by now that Rudy has lost his ability to nurture the players that need it, then it never will be. PLayers whose games force their presence ont he court (Steve, Mobley, Yao, Cassel, etc), Rudy has always been fine with. Heck, in the past, Rudy was good nurturing the Pete Chilcutt, Chucky Brown's of the world. Sadly, with Eddie and Nachbar and T-Mo and Collier and the list goes on, Rudy has lost his touch, or so it seems.
??? Manu was voted to 1st Team Euroleague. Giricek was too. Nachbar got no votes. There are somethings you can assess in one or two looks. Sure, players can surpass those first reports, but scouts do make reports based on a few looks. You can assess speed, footwork (especially defensive footwork), stroke, dribbling and mental parts of the game. In Europe, Manu ran his team, and drove. From the 2 games I saw of the Final 4, Nachbar looked more like a straight to the basket slasher. I never really saw him make a move or use passes on help d. And Manu did look faster. One thing we can say about speed, is the mental part of the game can effect how you use it. Maybe Nach is as fast as Manu, but hesitations or not seeing chances can impact that. In that sense, more time on the court can help. <blockquote><hr><i>originally posted by JayZ750</i> If it isn't obivous to everyone by now that Rudy has lost his ability to nurture the players that need it, then it never will be....and the list goes on<hr></blockquote> Hey, why did you stop there. What much farther does "the list go on." sounds like blatant exaggeration to me. You seem to be saying that anyone who does well, it was their ability forcing them onto the court. Anyone who fails (even if their talent is just not NBA ready like Rhodes/Collier/Langhi), it is Rudy's fault. I'm sorry; I can't blame Rudy for Collier then turnaround and not give at least some praise for helping prepare Yao very fast, and helping adjust Yao to fronting defenses. Saying he is not utilizing Yao is a team concept issue. Saying he is not nurturing and improving Yao's preparation and fundamentals is different. Further, I disagree that Mobley forced his presence onto the court. Part of that was Maloney sucked...but don't forget that Rudy had to change his position. Then he turned him into a 6th man. Then he started him at SF. Then salvaged his iso's in the first year of zone, by moving his entry point to the high elbow area rather then high wing. imo, Mobley is the prime example of Rudy nurturing the most out of a player of all cases of Rudy's history. btw: Why did you leave Kenny Thomas off that list? How about Kelvin Cato? And it is highly arguable that TMo isn't indeed being nurtured perfectly...PT is not a measure of nurturing...readiness is a better measure. Also, man, Eddie's problem is not lack of nurturing, it's lack of bulk and balls. In his rookie year, the kid was being put in the best situations...the best matchups...so he could hang with light PFs. Besides, being a PF in the NBA is a tough business...it takes longer to bet to NBA ready status. West and Hubie Brown still seem incapable of getting Swift to do much, Eddie was a gamble like Swift. I don't see that as lack of nurturing.
oh, and I forgot...James Posey on several occassions gave credit to Boylen on adjusting his shot. How's that not "developing" a player's skills? And I do believe Boylen saw something in Mobley stroke last year, as well. Mobley's stroke just changed in a span of a week. You could see it, and many people here commented on it.
