The two main problem areas against the Celtics that need to be addressed were bad transition defense for significant portions of the game and poor offensive execution mainly being the fault of the guards. The worst transition defense I have seen so far this season occurred in the first quarter. That was basically a layup fest for the Celtics as the Rockets were giving the ball up and just not getting back on defense. The Celtics for the most part did not even have to go into the 2nd phase of the transition game and were basically scoring on easy layups. The Celtics were not very accurate when the Rockets were able to keep them in a halfcourt offense and actually make them execute. I was very disappointed in the guard play tonight as well. The main culprit of what I am going to cite was Cuttino Mobley. When the traps came over during the guard iso plays, the Rockets guards (mainly Mobley) would attempt to split the trap and go through it instead of swinging the ball on the perimeter. Calvin Murphy was practically screaming everytime this happened. The guards need to handle the traps like they did last night where they were able to see the trap developing, they took a few dribbles to get around the trap and to the middle of the floor and swung the ball to the open man. Tonight, they were trying to split double team after double team which resulted in mistakes and easy scores on the other end for the Celtics. Also, in the pick and roll situation, the guards (mainly Mobley again) were not even looking at the rolling man and simply tried to force a play to the basket. When they repeatedly do that instead of kicking it out to the outside shooting big man on the perimeter, the middle becomes packed tighter than a sardine can. Thus, Tony Battie was completely swatting away everything that came in there. Collier was getting wide open in the corner off the screen and roll yet Mobley would continuously force the ball to the basket instead of passing/rotating it. The natural tendency of players like Mobley and Francis is to try and take a game over when things are going south. However, they need to realize that an intelligent brand of ball is needed to be successful and that just shooting off a pick continuously, disregarding teammates, trying to dribble through traps and turning it over, etc just is not going to get the job done. I hope we see a more organized and intelligent effort against the Heat. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
amen on both counts. I saw a couple of transitions where one of our safeties failed to release on the shot, looking for a rebound instead. We generally use two safeties. On Mobley's first possession he hits Collier for a baseline J...swish; the next, he splits the double for a foul; next, goes over the top of the trap. You've got to feed the roller early in the game to set up everything else, especially if he hits the first one...geeze, Mobes. MManal: Did you tape the game? I forgot to, again...sigh There is one other weird thing I saw that I'd like someone to look at. After about 5 PnRs with Mobley and Bullard/Collier, I saw the picker rolling too soon. This might have been a classic trap, but it sure looked like lazy picks to me. They MUST pick one guy before rolling, or the trap will stuff you. This problem also seems due to Mobley not being decisive in knowing how he is going to beat the trap. Anyhow, this is part of learning, for sure. We can't say Mobley should always pass to the roller, because that isolates the offense to the wing in the hands of a non-dribbler, so you have to be absolutely sure he can get it wide open. Mobley will have to go over the top of the trap as well, and that allows us to flex to the weakside; we have Francis over there, afterall, to start a new entry (that is flex). We are not running a Sloan play here, imo; we are running a PnR in a 4 out 1 flex w/Mobley. He'll have to see more and more defenses, before he knows how to run it in all cases. It is more complicated than saying he needs to just pass it to Collier rolling baseline. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited November 23, 2000).]
The reason for Mobley not passing is because we were not hitting the outside shot. Bullard was cold (where the hell was Wiz?) While I agree he should pass the ball to the open player on the wing, this style of offense does not work if we don't hit the open shot. We did have one player who was getting good looks inside, but he is so frustrating to watch because he constantly misses point blank shots. Kenny Thomas. If he could learn to finish a play off, he would be a monster. ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
MManal - 100% agree. You have no idea how painful it was listening to Tommy Heinsohn (NBALP) overhype the Celts when the Rocks were handing the ball to them and playing about as porous D as I have seen in a long time. I will give the Celts credit- they know where the lanes are on the break. Bob * - Respectfully disagree. Iverson's point total and # of shots is way down and look at the results. When Cat is struggling (29.4%), he needs to have confidence in his teammates. Collier wasn't shooting much better, but his shots were closer to the bucket. I am (painfully) going to review the tape. ------------------ GATER
About Mo's boards....I just wanted to mention that when a team shoots as horribly as we did, there are plenty of boards to go around for everyone.... Olajuwan: 6 boards in 21 minutes Battie: 7 boards in 23 minutes Moochie: 6 boards in 25 minutes Walker: 13 boards in 30 minutes ------------------
It hurt me to watch that game. Basketball at its worst. I dont know how the rockets could shoot worse than they did.Their defense in the 2nd half wasnt all that bad, but you have to put the ball in the basket and the leprechaun on the rim screwed the rocks tonight ------------------ www.truebballfansite.homestead.com
Bob: Shooters weren't hitting shots - no doubt. However, this has become a habit for Mobley. Splitting a double team and then firing up an off-balance jumper is not exactly a high percentage shot. I think Cat is a winner but he REALLY has to learn to trust his teammates for better AND worse. Sometimes, you shoot poorly. Sometimes you don't. The issue is whether or not you are willing to allow your team to play well or poorly together. It is one thing to take the team on your shoulders, but he wasn't exactly doing that in this one. I remember plenty great games where Olajuwon was on fire but Horry or Cassell or Smith ended up getting the last shot because Hakeem was smart enough to pass the ball to the open man and trust him to make the shot. I'll never forget that game against San Antonio when Horry was 1 for 7 but ended up hitting the game winning shot because he was open and Dream was double teamed. That is the definition of teamwork. ------------------ Time for a new cause.
Jeff, I have never seen Mobley split a double team until the Boston game. And both times he was fouled. Splitting (dribbling through) a double really pops out at you in 3D. You can't miss it. When do you recall him splitting a double. Are you talking about him going to the baseline to shoot the off-balance 15'er. I've certainly cringed at that several times.
Bob, whether the other teammates are making or missing shots, you still need to move the ball to them and get good ball rotation. If each trip down the floor, its dribble and shot or dribble with one pass and shoot, the defense can easily zero in. What is worse as you can see in HP's post is that when Collier first received the pass off a screen and roll on the baseline, he made the shot, but then he got ignored after that. It is important in the early going to show the defense that if they pack the middle you will kick it out. Make or miss, the defense has to realize that if they pack the middle you will kick it out. If then the shots dont fall, then its just not your night. However, you have to exhaust all options. Giving the message that you will completely disregard your teammates and try to go over Battie who's capping you every single time is not a winning strategy. When the Rockets are playing well, they cause the defense to break down and rotate the ball quickly for a wide open shot. When they have their game going and the floor spaced well, its beautiful to watch. However, to get clicking on all cylinders like that, a certain tone of sharing the ball needs to be established early. Also, HP I dont have a tape of the game. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
heyp: Good point. I guess I just mean dribbling out of the double team. That is the quickest way to get a turnover or pass up a good shot for a tough one. ------------------ Time for a new cause.
I agree with all of you, It is easy to pass when your teamates make the shots...ala Indiana game. It gets harder to do, when they are throwing up bricks, however, you HAVE to continue to hit the open man. That is how you learn to play TEAM ball, and thus learn how to be consistent and win. DaDakota PS. Jeff, if you are refering to the shot Horry hit from top of the key against SA in game 2 of the 95 Western Conference finals, it was the ONLY shot he made all game. ------------------ If Mankind evolved from Monkeys and Apes, then why are there still Monkeys and apes?
I did not mean Mobley should not pass just because they weren't hitting the shots, I was just pointing out thats why he didn't. Of course you must pass the ball when a double team or trap arrives. While Mobley can beat anyone 1 on 1, he cannot beat a double team (not often anyways) It is basic basketball to pass to the open man. We must play as a team. Last night, the going got tough and we didn't. We will only go as far as the TEAM takes us, not Mobley or Francis. ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
It is tough to pass when you get trapped. The picker often gave a bad pick, and you are now smothered left only to dribble away and out of it. Traps often take away the crisp pass. A lob pass just won't get the job done. Please consider the reason for a trapping defense and their goals, before we simplify everything by saying we just need to pass to the open man. A double team and a trap are not really synonomous.
You can see a double team and a trap coming, and pass right away, it is similar to not getting caught in the air with no one to pass it too. A good player, always has his options planned at all times. DaDakota ------------------ If Mankind evolved from Monkeys and Apes, then why are there still Monkeys and apes?
Not much of ball rotation, Defense was weak, a lot of force shots with less percentage to go in. Overall, Rockets need to move the ball a lot and execute the play design for it's purpose, not forcing shots.I'm sure it will be a lesson. ------------------ Rudy T. will find and fulfill Rockets destiny.
DaDakota said it perfectly. Its not too hard to see a trap coming. Get rid of the damn ball. I have seen him dribble right into traps also. Mobley is getting better, but he needs to learn to recognize and avoid the traps. Especially on the baseline. ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
the inevitable, overly-simplistic comparisons to Utah...ugh. I'm already on record here saying Mobley was impatient early, but I thought I saw some bad timing from the roller, too. You are stretching it saying there is such thing as a "fake" pick. There are fake traps and fake switches and responses to each, but I've never seen Utah's PnR fake a Malone pick. If you don't want to agree that the defense can smother the dribbler if the roller doesn't execute correctly, then you are just blaming the dribbler for everything as well as being in denial about NBA defenses. A trap of the PnR is designed to make the pass very difficult. Passing over a trap is tough (and often a worthless lob anyhow), and these traps are on you instantly if the picker executes poorly. Saying you must pass to rollers against the trap is overly-simplistic and completely ignores using the weakside anyhow. Plus, we have a completely different passing lane angle than the Utah system. The two are not the same in my opinion. I am convinced we haven't even seen half the set yet. Look for Mobley to dribble around the trap to the middle to find Hakeem and Bullard in the low post (if the double follows him), or Francis/Walt on the weakside to restart the play if the defense fully rotates. Think about it for second: If they trap the pick, and Mobley can still get to the middle quickly, we have the roller on one block and Hakeem on the other. This is better than 2 Shakes. Mobley should dribble around the trap if the pass is not there. This system requires reflex timing between the picker and dribbler, and patience by the dribbler if he decides to take it to the middle or get it over to the weakside against a trap. And stop the Utah comparisons, unless you want to compare the PnR-ing skills of Collier to Malone with me. <font size="1"><font color="> [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited November 24, 2000).]
Yes, people can get trapped, and a good solid pick is important to stopping this, however, if you are arguing that there is no such thing as "slipping" a pick then I don't know what to tell you. Fake picks are indeed a REAL play in ANY basketball league, we ran em in High School when the other team started trapping our PG, it made them go for the trap and got the PICKER to an open spot in a faster manner. HeyPartner, you seem to have a decent grasp of basketball as a whole, but sometimes you get locked into thinking that you KNOW something, when in fact it is a matter of conjecture. Until one of us is on the coaching staff and COMPLETELY understands the intent of each play, then I will continue to believe MY opinion over yours. DaDakota ------------------ If Mankind evolved from Monkeys and Apes, then why are there still Monkeys and apes?
Two things. First off, HP there were two separate issues I was discussing not just p-n-r. We did run two shakes in the Boston game. I was referring to when the trapper comes over to double team on two shakes. Go back and watch the end of the Indiana and see how we handled the trapper when we went on that streak at the end. Compare that to the two shakes in the Boston game. In the Indy game, the guards picked up on the 2nd trapper quickly and moved to the middle of the floor before they could get trapped onto the baseline and swung it immediately to the next teammate. In the Boston game, they actually tried to go through the middle of the two defenders which is completely stupid and leads to turnovers and transitions for the other team. These are the two extremes. What usually happens on 2 Shakes is that the trap is picked up too late and Mobley ends up backing away from the trap and has to pass out of it which results in the defense re-setting and the play being completely useless. They need to get to the point where they pick the trap up early and swing the ball. Getting backed into a corner throwing a defensive minded pass to the middle of the floor or trying to split the defense just is not how you beat the trap. This all comes with experience but right now its looking very crappy. The Rockets are seeing new defenses and need to get used to them. Also, those screen plays you were referring to are not lazy basketball. You cant run the p-n-r the identical way every time. There were suttle variations of how long the picker remains there, when he rolls, etc. Collier was basically adding a variation to the attack and it worked beautifully as he was standing wide open in the corner; Mobley just could not find him. The p-n-r part of the attack is doing its job its just that the decision making by the guards was trashy in the Boston game. Pick and slips and pick and fades are a part of the attack; they are suttle variations of the play. ------------------ Check out the Best Source for Draft Info Draftsource.net
Everyone still reading this thread: I love basketball talk. Sometimes it is a debate. But I am not debating in this thread. We are witnessing a brand new variation to the Rocket's offense. 2 Shakes is giving way to a Flex, imo. Who wants to help me spot it? Surely, cc.net can spot some things without relying on the media. Is that not a fun challenge to anyone? This isn't about right or wrong anymore than Clutch's recap has to be fully agreed upon. This is about being first to press. Who can spot Rudy's intent, first? cc.net or Brent Musburger. DaD, Good grief man, I am *trying* to be right about our offense. I never said I was right. Apparently, you are not interested in helping someone figure out Rudy's intent; you are just going to start more provocative threads and blame the goat of the day. Hey, "slipping", "faking",,,. I've never heard "fake", apparently you have. Now I know you are talking about a picker's slip of a trap. The dribbler can get smothered if the picker "slips/fakes" poorly. I'm just asking if anyone saw that, and why everyone says this is just a Mobley shot or pass to Collier, no other options, cause that is surely overly simplistic, unless you really believe Rudy has no coaching ability like Dreamshake. MManal, We did not run 2 Shakes at the end of Indiana, that was all p-n-r. Maybe we are talking about the same thing, be just using different terminology. Collier is not open if Mobley is smothered, not matter how alone Collier is. MManal, my main point is watch the weakside. I am willing to bet that Francis will soon become a weakside option to this. What we are seeing new is not what I consider 2 shakes. 2 Shakes is a pure ISO, from what I've heard Mobley say. Rudy is rolling out one thing at a time...let's spot them together. cheers guys
