I've noticed a striking difference in Yao so far this year, and have pointed it out in other threads, but I think it deserves further scrutiny. The matter at hand is: where did all of Yao's post moves go? In the 8 or 9 games I've watched this year, if Yao catches the ball in the low block and doesn't pass it back out--that is to say, if he winds up taking a shot--it's always dribble-dribble-dribble, turnaround-J, or dribble-dribble-dribble, awkward hook. WHERE ARE THE UP-AND-UNDERS? WHERE ARE THE BALL-FAKES? There was a reason why many of us were reminded of the Dream last year (one move was even dubbed the "Shanghai Shake"), but where did it all go? I think I've seen two up-and-under moves all year from Yao, and I have not yet once seen Yao use one of his most effective moves from last year, basically an up-and-under with a live dribble: where he catches the ball, spins quickly with an up-fake as though he's going up for a jumper, making his man leave his feet then putting the ball on the floor and drive to the basket to score. Is this Ewing "teaching" Yao to forfeit his best moves because Ewing himself only had a TAJ move? Is this a result of everyone wanting Yao to be more "aggressive" and those fancy moves aren't "power" moves or are too "finesse"? I'm beginning to think that may be the case: they might be telling him, "You're 7'5, GO UP STRONG"--but Yao is not an explosive leaper at all, he needs to shake his defender in order to create space for his shot. Maybe Ewing was the wrong choice after all--if we can't get Dream to coach Yao, how about showing him tapes of Kevin McHale's assortment of post maneuvers?
two things. 1) I have seen the up and under move you describe, he did it recently(dont remember which game at the moment), where he faked his man off his feet and then went under him to the basket. but it was just once that I remember seeing it... 2) the dropstep and baseline drive is problamatic if the refs are looking for him to foul since sometimes he does illegally hook his defender when he does that. I would wager that they are encouraging him to do the jumpers and hook shots since they dont involve doing moves that might lead to him fouling his defender while making the move. Besides, if he gets that hookshot down, can you say unstoppable? btw...good thread.
I didn't see Toronto game, but I 've seen reports saying Yao made pretty moves around basket only being fouled by AD when he went up for the basket. Is that true?
I agree with you. I have no idea where all of Yao's post moves have gone? Remember last year, he would do some unbelievable moves, this year, he can't even hit his free-throws. I don't think Patrick Ewing is very helpful. I wished the rockets would hire Olajuwon to teach Yao, but that would be out of the question since the rockets let the Dream go. I am sure that the Dream has harsh feelings towards the rockets organization for letting him go to Toronto. Even Moses Malone would have been better teaching Yao.
A few thoughts I think your observation is correct. I haven't seen as much up and under stuff from Yao, nor that wonderful baseline spin. I think that there are several reasons for this. 1. JVG's chief objectives for Yao is for him to establish deeper post position, and to be more aggressive. Yao has in fact established deeper post position with regularity; not always grant you, but it’s early. I think a lot of his moves in the past, particularly the spin baseline, were moves to get to the basket from 12-15 feet out, but with his deeper position, he’s already where he needs to go. Perhaps you remember a ways back when Gheorge Mureasan (sp?) was briefly a wonderfully effective post scorer. His game consisted of two moves (with either hand), an immediate baby hook as soon as he received the pass, out to about 7 feet, or occasionally, when he had a lot of room and single coverage, one dribble to get into the lane followed by a baby hook (shooting well over 55% as I recall). I think JVG would like to see more of this approach from Yao (obviously with more possibilities owing to Yao’s superior abilities). I don’t think he’s trying to take anything away from Yao’s game, but rather make him work less hard for his baskets, to be more efficient, as JVG said about Stevie. The early growing pains (as evidenced by Yao’s fluctuating fg %) show that Yao isn’t yet totally comfortable setting up so deep, with collapsing double and triple teams getting to him much more quickly. The most painful thing in the world is to see Yao taking as many as three or four dribbles on the low block, and getting the ball slapped away half the time. He just looks sometimes like he doesn’t quite know what to do when he’s down there. I know it sounds inane to suggest that a guy his size is becoming newly acquainted with the low post, but well, watching last year’s action, where he set up 10-15 feet from the basket, that’s the way it seems to me. When Yao makes his move immediately upon receiving the ball, without thinking or methodically trying to back a guy down, he looks much more comfortable and performs better. The thing to remember is that it’s very, very early and this is something Yao should have been working on with Ewing in July. I think he’s making considerable strides already, and you see the difference game to game. I think we will see plenty of those moves you’re talking about, when Yao grows comfortable with the low post and more specifically lane traffic, and starts to react (like he did against J. O’Neal in one of my all time favorite moves) instead of think and plot. 2. Secondly, consider his opposition. Most of the games so far have matched him against much smaller, quicker power-forward types like Antonio Davis. Those guys are going to be much less susceptible to his spins and can recover more quickly from his fakes. JVG is going to combat this by putting Yao down low all the more, to simply shoot baby hooks and short jumpers over the top of the smaller defenders, and I think you’ll see this throughout Yao’s career. Coaches aren’t going to be able to match his size, so they will try to limit Yao’s finesse game with strong, speedy forwards and double teams. All the more reason to streamline Yao’s approach. Anyway, I’ve gone on long enough. We’re going to see a lot of growing pains mixed in with spots of brilliance for a while, but Yao learns very quickly. Just note how already, in the last few games, he has gotten better at limiting his dribbles in the post and keeping the ball high and away from slapping hands. I think you will soon see that Yao has lost nothing from his game, just changed his approach somewhat, and further into the season you’ll see him doing his McHale impression all over the place. But if a lot of his baskets come Gheorge style, that’s fine too.
Yao is obviously more comfortable facing the basket or at the top of the key. Learning to make back-to-the-basket moves from the deep post is a new thing for him. He's not used to operating so low. But Yao is a smart guy with good dedication -- with more practice, more reps and more time, he'll be fine.
yeah I noticed the same thing yet I bet If I started the thread it would be locked. Anyways, its always the same move. Dribble dribble dribble,then a weak off balance fadeaway hook that clanks and the man guarding him is 1 foot shooter. HOw about take it to the rim by dribbling or . Oh wait, I just remembered, we shouldnt blame yao. Blame the refs. To Mings credit he did try to take it to the hole and the flopping defenders always flop and Ming gets called for a Offensive foul even though shaq does that EVERY play. The refs will ruin Mings career. Instead of 30ppg easy like shaq,the refs make ming have to work for it just to get 20.
I have also noticed that his passing is not that great anymore. Last year he used to make some awsome passes inside, this year I have seem only passing to the perimeter. I don't know if they are forcing him to change all his natural abilities in favor of being stronger inside.
JVG, is that you? Right on the point man, good post. Yao's fake won't be efficient as last season, cause like Glendelicious said, most center that match up with Yao are small and quick. Other than that, seems alot opponent doesn't go for Yao's fake anymore, notice that when Yao shoots his jummper, only few guy will actually jump and try to block his shot, most of them will just put a hand in his face, guess they realize how hard it is to block his shot.
I Believe it's a bunch of factors that are taking away his chances to do the moves on the court. I believe one factor is Ewing. I don't remember seeing alot of magical monkey moves on the big Ape. Yao needs the dream to come in and give a couple pointers. If there is anyone who can show Yao how to use finese to sneak to the basket and throw a slam it is Hakeem. It's just too bad he would never do it. He's probably enjoying his retired life somewhere. I know this is off topic and all but Man I wish I could retire at 40 because I'm already stacked with millions in my account.
Yao has definitely been settling for the turnaround jumpers more than I remember him ever doing last season. I would like to see attempt to go around his defender more before shooting, rather than constantly trying to shoot over them.
I think he needs time to adjust to playing deeper in the post, at which point he'll be more comfortable and will bust out them oves again. Right now, he's got his mind on getting deep position 24/7, it's all he does, and you can see it on his face. Once it becomes automatic, he'll be able to be a bit more creative.
This is right on. When Yao was a rookie, defenders didn't play him as tight. Now, with 2 or 3 defenders on him, he's not able to move around them as easily as before. Also, he has to focus more on keeping the ball from being pulled out of his hands, and that makes it more difficult for him to see the floor and make a fancy Yao pass. More also: last year, Yao would pass to a cutting Steve or Cat. This year, I think JVG wants Steve and cat more at the perimiter and wants Yao to pass to a cutting forward. However, this is Cato's first year in the forward position, and MoT, E.Griffin, and A.Griffin haven't been available. Even more also: Yao's game has changed because other teams have really stepped up the D against him. Actually, I'm pretty happy with the fact that, though it's more difficult for him, he's still scoring double-doubles almost every night and is working the in-out game well. Once we get some players back from IR, we should be in pretty darn good shape. Considering our setbacks this year, we're doing an excellent job. -- droxford
To me, it appears that he's been getting those moves back in the last couple of games. I think he's just getting used to the weight he put on. Once he starts hitting his shots more consistently, the guards will feed him the ball more and our offense will really start to click.
Yao always surveys the court after he gets the ball. His first choice is inside-out, which is great as a team player. When he decides to shoot the ball, the defenders are ready for his move. That results low shooting persentage. Yao is capable to improve his shooting when the season goes on. He will be unstoppable when he gets used to down low.
Good points, Glend, I think you're right that Yao's "plotting" too much--and often his "plotting" turns into "plodding." He needs to just react, make his instinctual moves, and this is where I think the (over?)coaching may be in his head a little bit. We're only 1/8 into the season, I hope we'll see a more fluid Yao by the quarter- or half-way mark.
Yao's moves have become more mechanical and predicable. Jump-hook or fade-away. The pump-fake was a great weapon for Yao because his defenders would always bite on the fake because Yao is so tall, that they almost have to jump on the pump-fake. Even if the fake fails, Yao still has the passing ablity to pass out of he post.
