Even with the recent turn of events and me not being able to watch as much of my league pass as i used to, I'm still one of the first and few that thinks Griffin should have been starting from day 1. I know people will stay with the argument that he didn't earn it or something else, but I just don't see why you draft a player or trade for him, he's the 7th player in the draft taken and he's backing Kenny Thomas or Walt Williams. I know kenny thomas have been playing pretty good this season, thus increasing his trade value, but once walt was injured and wasn't traded, Griffin should have finished the season starting for the Rockets. Watching walt williams play even in his good spurts wasn't going to help this team for next yr whcih was the goal pretty much after the 16 game losing streak. To me , no rookie can come in and play preaseaon and beat out any veteran for the most part, but you use high lotto picks based on players potential in the future not production now. I know it may not be a fair comparison, but watching Gasol and Battier play just makes me really see how far behind Griffin is in terms of development and the coaching and offense makes it no better. Watching the frail thin (7'1 217lbs) Gasol work inside and outside makes me very mad. I'm pretty sure when they run pick and roll, he has the range or made up range to shoot the 3, but he doesn't. Gasol rolls to the baskets for dunks,hooks and short jumpers while Griffin shoots the ball from 23 ft most times. Memphis doesn't post up Gasol every play down the floor, but they do give him chances to score with his back to the basket or facing up. Why can't we give Griffin the same chances? Why do he have to go a antoine-like 4-13 including 0-5 from 3 range? Its just very dissapointing even when he's hitting. It just strikes a bad nerve with me to see ,Morris,Williams or Rice play before Griffin. So what he gets abused or hits the rookie wall. Looking at all the rookies who's hit the wall seem to bounce back and come back much improved. Its really not about who can play better right now, especially when the season was lost 30 games or so, its about how we can improve our anemic inconsitent offense and defense and how fast are our rookies progressing.To me it didn't make sense in november, nor do it makes sense in april.
Tell it to Kwame Brown... I don't completely disagree withyou but for the most part I believe Rudy has been bringing him along well... Also when people talk about hitting that rookie wall, It's not a physical or fatigue thing it's more a mental thing... Taking a jump from college to the big leagues can be overwhelming there is so much to learn day in and day out. And at some point your brain just goes into shut down... The transformation is hard for most players but it's especially hard for the younger ones. The only real solution is to take a break and then go back to drawing board, but you don't get that option in the NBA... Eddie is a bit in the middle of that wall right now... On the upside the kid has more poise than the other 19 year olds drafted before him... Give him the summer off and watch how much he improves... Don't worry he will eventually be a starter and a star in this league... just give him some time.
leebigez - you and I have both documented our mutual dissatisfaction with the Rice aquisition. I think EG could/would have played himself into the lineup had there been no Rice. Rice started the 1st 20 games. Under Rudy's seniority system, Walt would have started and EG would have been the first of the bench. IMHO, the whole Rice ordeal impacted EG significantly. Possibly to the point of EG not being mentally ready for the NBA game. Secondly, (and you already know this) a comparison of EG to Battier is a 1yr go-to player at Seton Hall vs. a 4yr Duke "role" type player. Battier has had time and good coaching to develop fundamentals. Regarding Gasol - he's been playing professionally for a lot longer and the Euro Leagues are constantly improving. Lastly, (and I'll probably get flamed for this). Battier and Gasol are in an environment that plays to their strengths. Williams gets them the ball in a position where they are capable of scoring. Because of the Rockets style of play, EG has been relegated to the 3pt line.
I know what you're saying about Gasol and Battier, but what about Chandler and Curry starting? J. Richardson, either one of the Collins twins or even Arenas and guys like that. Kwame Brown is a high schooler and even though Griffin only played 1 yr, but still. I hope he gets better especially in the post, but saying he isn't strong enough to play inside the acr is bull****. Sometimes I wish griffin only had range to about 10-12 ft like Garnett was and J.Oneal was and is because we probably wouldn't see him 23ft away and shooting 36%from the field for a big man. Sometimes having so called range, big guys never get real good 12ft and in. I remember Coleman being the same way, and thats not saying coleman in his younger days wasn't a very good player, but for a player with his skills to shoot 40% in his early yr was crazy. He handled like a guard, had the renge of a guard, and post up like a center, but he fell in love with being away from the basket. Another player thats pretty close to that is Walker of Boston. For all the stat line he fills up, its just hard for me seeing a guy with his skills shoot 36%. Thatsnot even acceptable for a little guy . I can see Griffin being like that even though i hope he doesn't. I know pretty close that when he finally gets to start or play 30+ mins, he'll be a 18pts 11rebs 3 blks type of guy because he has natural rebounding and shot blocking skills, i just worry about his fg %. I also agree the misused pick in fade doesn't help either.
Lee: in the old days, you would've been correct. However, this is all part of the new NBA, and we just have to learn to deal with it. Instead of being prepared after three or four years of college, players are coming out at the first hint of all that cash. Right now, Eddie's just not physically developed enough to play all the minutes and do the things we want him to do. Battier and Gasol are isolated cases. Battier went through four years of college at a top program, and his rookie season shows why more players should do that. Gasol, though 21, played several years in a professional Spanish league. Eddie, like most American lottery picks this year, came out at 18 years old after playing one year of college ball. As long as this is the tradition, we just have to change our expectations of their immediate impact. Take a look at the top 10 picks last year: Kwame Brown Tyson Chandler Pau Gasol * Eddy Curry Jason Richardson Shane Battier * Eddie Griffin Sagana Diop Rodney White Joe Johnson All of those guys, with the exception of the two for the Grizzlies, were sophomores, freshmen, or from high school. All of these guys are under 20 years old with extremely limited time on the college level, if any. To be honest, except for Battier and perhaps Griffin, none of these players were even superstars on the college level. They're drafted for their raw talent, and you have to be patient to give these players major minutes. You can even go back to the 2000 top 10, if you wish: Kenyon Martin * Stromile Swift Darius Miles Marcus Fizer * Mike Miller Dermarr Johnson Chris Mihm * Jamal Crawford Joel Pryzbilla Keyon Dooling Everyone but the three starred were sophomores and under, and none of those players except for Mike Miller have played major minutes. I think the situation with these kids, in many ways, is comparable to playing a young quarterback in football. You play them too much when they are young and not physically or mentally ready, and their confidence takes a huge hit. Eddie's body is not nearly developed enough to consistently bang in the post with NBA players at this point. Hopefully it will be down the line, but right now, it's not. One of the most prized possession any athlete has is his confidence and ability to believe, and if you throw EG out there for 35 minutes a game, he may be mentally beaten. Obviously, you hope that he understands that he isn't physically developed yet, but how much pressure do you want to put on a 19 year old? It would be great to be able to pencil in a lottery pick as a first year starter, but at this point in the NBA, it doesn't work like that anymore. It's something we all have to adjust to, and Eddie is no different. I do feel like, however, that he has gotten some good time on the floor this season, and with some bulking up he'll be a much improved player next year.
Has anyone seen what happens when Eddie posts up? About half his shots get blocked. He's not ready. Maybe Rudy doesn't want him to lose confidence before he's good enough to compete.
Man, I've got to quit taking so long to post. I wasted 15 minutes think about my little post, when The Cat had already said it 10 times better
So in the games I've watched where he starts or is on the floor with Cato & KT, EG is the PF? I'd have to go back and look at some tapes, but that's not what I recall.
EG isn't a natural 3 If we try to convert the guy we're doing him, and our team more harm than good. Eddie should be working on his fundamentals at age 19, passing, blocking out, running the break, that sort of thing. Eddie always mentions his ball handling in his interviews as things he needs to improve. That scares me b/c, while I'm not opposed to him picking up other parts of the game, learn what comes naturally first. I just hope that includes a low post game. Hit the weight room kid....
My point was (and still is) that at this point in his career, EG is not 100% defined at any postion 5, 4 or 3. And he would sit behind Rice OR Taylor on a depth chart. He has little to no post up game, is planted at the 3pt line and does not guard the Duncans, Wallace's & Malone's of this world. Yes, he can for brief stints guard David Robinson and he will get stronger. But he is not currently being used exclusively as a PF. He is used in situational matchups and does play a lot of SF. Cases in point - He started against the Lakers. Did KT defend Fox or Horry? Because EG took the other assignment. (I do not recall but my guess is EG took Fox). When he started against the Clips, who took Brand?
the Rockets haven't used the Cato-Griff-KT in awhile...and Rudy and KT both made comments talking about Kenny's transition to the 3. I think they've focused on him as a 4, moreso than a 5. Lately, when Cato goes out JC replaces him, and when KT goes out, Griff replaces him. Griffin still gets some spot 5 duty, but from my perspective, it looks like the staff is planning on him settling as a 4. IMO, he needs more time w/Francis and Mobley, and less with Moochie, especially Moochie waving him off when he has some 6'6'' SG in the post.
OK, I must be a masochist but I'm going to try just one more time to communicate the concept. I did not say EG couldn't, wouldn't, shouldn't or doesn't play PF. I will believe you if you tell me EG is the PF of the Rockets future and I won't even flinch if you tell me he's going into the HOF as the Rockets best PF ever and 33 will hang in the rafters of the new arena. But... Had Glen Rice not been injured and had Rice been even moderately productive, Griffin would not have played as many minutes this season as he already has (leebigez's point from a millenia ago - "play him don't let him backup KT or Walt"). Now, if you want to tell me that Griffin has not played any SF this season we will have to agree to disagree. PS to Nike - I guess "awhile" is anything more than a month because Cato, KT & Griffin started against the Lakers on March 3rd.
I don't usually do this give kudos post with no further take... but...WOW... great post The Cat. <font size="1">now back to making my Saturday meatloaf and anticipating my new Sopranos tapes (woohoo)....carry on.</font>
Hehe, seems like it's been longer. Anyhow, I can't recall a time since Griffin moved back to the bench where Rudy has gone with that frontline at any point in the game. I also think that Rudy plays to a player's strengths, no matter the position. KT was shooting 3s earlier in his career, too
By the way, for those who say a SF has to be able to dribble, Robert Horry played SF for the Rockets and he still can't dribble. DaDakota
Good point Cat and I know what you're talking about, but i remember walt being injured and Rudy starting Eddie. Even though he had some bad offensive games, you could see people pump faking and getting shots blocked. The same thing the elite 4's did to Eddie, they did to KT and especially Taylor last yr as evident by his low minutes being in foul trouble. The problem I had is when Walt came back, and it was apparent we were out of the playoffs Eddie goes back to the bench! I mean if Chandler and Curry can start, Richardson can start maybe not at the beginning of the season but in the middle, why not Griffin? I guess Chandler was beating out Oakley and Curry was beating out Miller.
I disagree. I think the only lotto player who should definitely start and play their first year is the number one pick in the draft. You do not use the #1 pick on a project like Kwame Brown. I'm still trying to figure out why Michael chose Kwame over Elton Brand.
It was more than that. What hung up the trade was mike wanted Crawford for some reason. People are making a big deal over a player that has just played his first game in the nba this yr. A number 7 pick should start at some point in the season. Garnett didn't really beat out Sam Mitchell, but the last few games of the season it was better to have him playing screing up than mitchell playing ok and the team still losing. Once Walt got hurt and Eddie was starting, he should'nt have not come out of the starting lineup this yr.
