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Looking North

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by gifford1967, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    We could do worse than look to Canada as we try to fundamentally reform our financial, health care, and social safety net sectors.

    Fareed Zakaria
    NEWSWEEK

    From the magazine issue dated Feb 16, 2009

    The legendary editor of The New Republic, Michael Kinsley, once held a "Boring Headline Contest" and decided that the winner was "Worthwhile Canadian Initiative." Twenty-two years later, the magazine was rescued from its economic troubles by a Canadian media company, which should have taught us Americans to be a bit more humble. Now there is even more striking evidence of Canada's virtues. Guess which country, alone in the industrialized world, has not faced a single bank failure, calls for bailouts or government intervention in the financial or mortgage sectors. Yup, it's Canada. In 2008, the World Economic Forum ranked Canada's banking system the healthiest in the world. America's ranked 40th, Britain's 44th.

    Canada has done more than survive this financial crisis. The country is positively thriving in it. Canadian banks are well capitalized and poised to take advantage of opportunities that American and European banks cannot seize. The Toronto Dominion Bank, for example, was the 15th-largest bank in North America one year ago. Now it is the fifth-largest. It hasn't grown in size; the others have all shrunk.

    So what accounts for the genius of the Canadians? Common sense. Over the past 15 years, as the United States and Europe loosened regulations on their financial industries, the Canadians refused to follow suit, seeing the old rules as useful shock absorbers. Canadian banks are typically leveraged at 18 to 1—compared with U.S. banks at 26 to 1 and European banks at a frightening 61 to 1. Partly this reflects Canada's more risk-averse business culture, but it is also a product of old-fashioned rules on banking.

    Canada has also been shielded from the worst aspects of this crisis because its housing prices have not fluctuated as wildly as those in the United States. Home prices are down 25 percent in the United States, but only half as much in Canada. Why? Well, the Canadian tax code does not provide the massive incentive for overconsumption that the U.S. code does: interest on your mortgage isn't deductible up north. In addition, home loans in the United States are "non-recourse," which basically means that if you go belly up on a bad mortgage, it's mostly the bank's problem. In Canada, it's yours. Ah, but you've heard American politicians wax eloquent on the need for these expensive programs—interest deductibility alone costs the federal government $100 billion a year—because they allow the average Joe to fulfill the American Dream of owning a home. Sixty-eight percent of Americans own their own homes. And the rate of Canadian homeownership? It's 68.4 percent.

    Canada has been remarkably responsible over the past decade or so. It has had 12 years of budget surpluses, and can now spend money to fuel a recovery from a strong position. The government has restructured the national pension system, placing it on a firm fiscal footing, unlike our own insolvent Social Security. Its health-care system is cheaper than America's by far (accounting for 9.7 percent of GDP, versus 15.2 percent here), and yet does better on all major indexes. Life expectancy in Canada is 81 years, versus 78 in the United States; "healthy life expectancy" is 72 years, versus 69. American car companies have moved so many jobs to Canada to take advantage of lower health-care costs that since 2004, Ontario and not Michigan has been North America's largest car-producing region.

    I could go on. The U.S. currently has a brain-dead immigration system. We issue a small number of work visas and green cards, turning away from our shores thousands of talented students who want to stay and work here. Canada, by contrast, has no limit on the number of skilled migrants who can move to the country. They can apply on their own for a Canadian Skilled Worker Visa, which allows them to become perfectly legal "permanent residents" in Canada—no need for a sponsoring employer, or even a job. Visas are awarded based on education level, work experience, age and language abilities. If a prospective immigrant earns 67 points out of 100 total (holding a Ph.D. is worth 25 points, for instance), he or she can become a full-time, legal resident of Canada.

    Companies are noticing. In 2007 Microsoft, frustrated by its inability to hire foreign graduate students in the United States, decided to open a research center in Vancouver. The company's announcement noted that it would staff the center with "highly skilled people affected by immigration issues in the U.S." So the brightest Chinese and Indian software engineers are attracted to the United States, trained by American universities, then thrown out of the country and picked up by Canada—where most of them will work, innovate and pay taxes for the rest of their lives.

    If President Obama is looking for smart government, there is much he, and all of us, could learn from our quiet—OK, sometimes boring—neighbor to the north. Meanwhile, in the councils of the financial world, Canada is pushing for new rules for financial institutions that would reflect its approach. This strikes me as, well, a worthwhile Canadian initiative.

    URL: http://www.newsweek.com/id/183670
     
  2. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. Canada's health care system is a total nightmare.
     
  3. insane man

    insane man Member

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    TOTALLY!

    sincerely,
    50 million americans without healthcare.
     
  4. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    .....

     
  5. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    How many of them choose to be without healthcare to save money? How many of them are young and healthy and decided they would rather make 20 per hour instead of 12 and have a health plan?

    Make drugs cost less and leave healthcare alone.
     
  6. ymc

    ymc Member

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    Sadly, this number is going up as we speak. :(
     
  7. Bogey

    Bogey Member

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    If I wanted a government like Canada's, I'd move to Canada!!
     
  8. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    Yes!

    Let's make sure we never use any ideas that are working in other countries, because we're smart like that.
     
  9. Bogey

    Bogey Member

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    Yes!

    Lets become just like Canada and France.

    All these contries want us to be no better than them until they need us. Then they want us to be a superpower again.

    I'm not saying you can't use some ideas, but I don't like modelling after Canada.
     
  10. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    How broad is your knowledge of other countries in the health care issue?

    Do you know the struggles of germany, japan, the UK etc?


    People quoting life expectancy are making a complicated issue so dumbed down it is crazy. We might as well determine who has the best system by checking average height of the population.
     
  11. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    Canada's nice, but it's too cold.

    There are a lot of things you can do with a small, fairly homogeneous population and vast resources. This is an apples and oranges comparison.
     
  12. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    I would like to know how much of the relative strength of Canada's financial system is because of bank regulations, and how much is because of fiscal conservatism by the government. At one point recently, they had had the longest string of budget surpluses of any major (semi-major) country. Canada was also the only major country that never had a banking crisis during the Great Depression.

    I think the real lesson from Canada is how little banks really matter in the grand scheme of things. Despite no banking crisis, the Great Depression in Canada was much deeper and more severe than in the United States, and much longer than in Europe. I don't know the actual numbers right now, but it seems that Canada is really taking it on the chin during this <s>depression</s> recession. While the US's trade deficit is shrinking, Canada ran a trade deficit for the first time since the 70s in December.

    I've said before that no bank is really too big to fail (especially with insured or even partially insured deposits), because (unlike, say an automobile manufacturer) a bank can be replaced almost overnight. Loss of banks causes a panic. Loss of manufacturing or trade causes a depression. Using capital to prop up zombie banks takes it away from manufacturing or trade.
     
  13. bmb4516

    bmb4516 Member

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    If we nationalize healthcare where are all the Canadians going to go to get cancer treatment?
     
  14. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    Chiming in again on something you know nothing about, like economics, eh?
     
  15. gifford1967

    gifford1967 Member
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    Each of the countries you listed (and you can add Canada and France to your list), spend a smaller percent of their GDP than the US on health care, get significantly better health outcomes, and cover their entire populations. Those are the simple facts.

    If you have a case to make for the superiority of the US health system, then make it. Use whatever criteria you see fit. I'll stick with costs less, works better, and covers more.
     
  16. FranchiseBlade

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    That idea works when people are young and healthy. However people need check ups, and preventative medicine. If people are young and diabetic, or young and happen to have any number of other chronic illnesses then it gets insanely expensive, and almost impossible for them to make a decent living and pay for health care costs.

    As people get older or have chronic conditions they need assistance. The best way to help people getting many of these conditions is preventative medicine and doctors' visits.
     
  17. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    The French system is a much better model than Canada.

    The Canadian system saves money by rationing the costly procedures (which usually are required by those who are sickest). It's a great health system as long as you aren't sick.

    Here is a basic rundown of the French system.
     
  18. stanleykurtz

    stanleykurtz Member

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    In addition, home loans in the United States are "non-recourse," which basically means that if you go belly up on a bad mortgage, it's mostly the bank's problem. .

    To me, that is the most important sentence in the article (even if it is not really true- all residential mortgages are full recourse).

    Our main problem right now stems from our government's mandate that lenders make bad loans to people who can't qualify for mortgages. Once the government forced the banks to make poor underwriting decisions, it spiraled down hill from there.

    Canada obviously takes an approach which demands personal responsibility, and encourages stricter lender underwriting standards.
     
  19. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Thanks for the article of the French system. I'm not sure of your analysis of Canada is not overly negative and simplistic, but the French system is intriguing.

    In Michael Moore's "Sicko" he had a segment on the French system and showed a doctor making a home visit, which apparently is pretty common. He also interviewed some American's living there who were quite pleased with the system.
     
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Well its pretty cold in a lot of the US too. Heck Vancouver is warmer than many US cities.

    I agree and lets not forget a much smaller population, much smaller national and provincial governments. I think there is a lot to learn from Canada but a a lot of it isn't going to apply to the US.

    Plus I'm not aboot to recite this speech.
    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BRI-A3vakVg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BRI-A3vakVg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
     

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