STATISTICS! Among the team stats, this series stands out to me as particularly telling: Of 28 Teams: Opponent FG% 1.LA Lakers: .411 28.Houston: .467 Opponent TO's 1.Memphis: 16.68 28.Houston: 11.818 Personal Fouls 1.Utah: 23.608 28.Houston: 17.212 Steals 1.Boston: 9.375 26.Houston: 6.788 These statistics sadden me. Beyond Francis and perhaps the Rookies, there's nobody on this team with both the desire and the tools to be a great defender. The team is composed of: 1: guys like Walt Williams, Glen Rice, MoT, and Willis who are all guys who are soft on defense because of a complete lack of lateral quickness and jumping ability. 2:Guys like Kenny Thomas and Mobley guys who, because of physical restraints (a total lack of height for KT, and a lack of bulk combined with just a touch of height for Mobley) will never be defensive 'greats', even if they have the demenor. 3:Guys who just don't seem to care enough. (I think you know who I mean. 4:The closest this team has to a tough guy/gritty enforcer/heart in the trenches/Vintage Mario type of guy is Willis, and even in his prime he was never 'great' defensively. I don't even know who I'd put #2 on the list. In the personal moves for this team there is what I percieve to be a shift from tough, hardworking, pluggers (what the hockey people call 'muckers and grinders'), and more towards the 'crafty veteran' types with well ballanced skills, starting with Barkley. I hope the rookie trio of Torres, Morris, and Griffin signals an end towards this trend in personell decisionmaking. Clearly, this shift doesn't check out across the board (for instance, Chilly Pete fits more in the 'post-modern' Rockets schema), but at the very least, the numbers support me. Am I seeing something that's not there?
Great Post Ottomaton! But I don't know if u shoulda put in that personal fouls stat...that really does not show whether your are playing defense or not. And that Glen Rice trade was horrible. You guys say that Shandon only would have given us nothin on offense, but he gave us everything on defense. But great post.
There is no denying those stats. Although, I'd like to see them without the 15 games, since we were playing tenacious D before the injuries. What I don't really agree with is your rigid manner in describing how to build a defensive team. How many "great defenders" does it take? What does "tools" mean? If Francis had great defender in him, he would have shown it by now. Do you think Mookie Blaylock at 6'1" had the "tools" like Francis? Was he really even that tall? Does another 1st Team defensive player, Jason Kidd, have the "tools." Do you think Joe Dumars had the tools for SG at 6'3" more so than Mobley? Do you think Robert Horry was a "great defender," but he never made mention in All-Defense 1st or 2nd team. Hell John Stockton made 2nd Team twice. My point is to say great defense can be deny ball, deny positioning, deny paths and have quick hands. That was Dumars. That is tenacity and smarts. Perimeter defense does not have to rise up and alter shots. As long as we have one great low post defender (Griffin) and a slew of tenacious ones like Kenny, Mobley, TMo and Torres we can be good. Isn't Minnesota made up of one great defender (OK, the best) and a slew of tenacious ones? Can't Griffin be that great some day? Playing solid team defense with a slew of young legs with the one-on-one capacity to play deny the ball, maintain position, and have quick hands along with a stud anchor man of the future, and we won't be a poor defensive team. <b>Is it not enough "great defenders" or too many matadors</b> We just need to be fundamentally sound all-around with one eraser like Minnesota. I don't think the problem is not enough "great defenders." I think the problem is too many matadors--Walt, Taylor, Moochie, Francis and Cato. Francis, I can deal with, because we want him fresh on offense anyhow, and he does produce rebounds to offset his relaxed defense. I find it odd you mention Francis as potential a "great defender" when most on this board criticizes it. I just want to point out that that is an example of how "desire and tools" doesn't mean you can play perimeter Defense, and lack of Francis's "tools" (I assume you mean height, speed and hops) doesn't mean you can't play perimeter defense.
In a post about statistics, I find it funny that you miscounted the number of teams in the NBA. There are 29.
oops make those 28's 29's... I was thinking about this some more, and I started thinking about the fact that the Rockets are last in the NBA in assists as well, and the other thing that it makes me think is that as much as anything else they are passive. There seems to be a segment of basketball fans who'd like to believe that defense is all about heart and hustle. They admire great defenders as if it is somehow achieved through the strength of their will exclusively. The old adage is that 'anyone can play 'D' if they really want to. This, unfortunately, is simply not true. I think I'd perhaps feel a bit better about Mobley's defense if he had a bit more strength to push back. I keep thinking of Mobley vs. Kobe - how outmatched he always looks. Granted, most people do, but I'd imagine that Dumars would be pushing him around before he crossed half-court, something Mobley can't really do. He does everything more or less 'right' but just doesn't have the one special something that'd make him great. He's probably not as bad as I seemed to imply, though. Remember when Horry shut down CB in the playoffs? That was an excelent example of how important pure height is to playing 1 on 1 position 'd' on the man with the ball. Kenny hustles his @ss of to deny position and prevent the pass, but once the other team gets it he's just plain out of luck. If your say, CWeb, and you're matched up on Kenny, he may annoy you a bit and make you get the ball out of position, but once your teammates finaly get you the ball, you're really happy you have a hardworking Kenny on you vs one of the lazier, more physically adept PF's in the league. My opinion is that Stockton was never that great a 1 on 1 defender. The steal numbers, and his all-around reputation as a good player made people think otherwise. Kidd plays to his advantage. He stays back to compensate for a lack of lateral quickness, which he can makeup for with his height, strength, and streight-ahead speed. He has one flaw, but several other outstanding traits from which to compensate. Another quick example I can think of is Jordan, who was all-defensive several times. Yet, what is his signature moment of 'd'? Getting beat by Ehlo and comming back to reject him from behind. This is a combination of pure physical talent with enough desire to get it done. Griffin, BTW, doesn't have the strength to be a great 1on1 defender yet, despite the team help 'd'. Also, I'd contend that while Francis has been average at best, he's had 'moments' when he got worked up and played great.
otto -- excellent post, as always. maybe you hit the nail on the head...aside from Francis and a few others, the team seems really soft...maybe that's why I don't LIKE this group of players all that much. I mean Mobley and Francis play with tons of energy...but past that I never get the impression that the other guys care all that much, whether or not that's truly the reality. Defense = Caring!!
Assuiming 14 of those 15 games didn't happen, here's what you get. I say 14 because you can't completely discount all those games, I used the first loss in the streak to count as one game symbolizing the play of the entire streak. Opposing FG%: .454 Rank 23rd in the league, slightly up from 29th Opponents Turnovers: 11.4 Rank 29th in the league Team Steals: 6.26 28th in the league just barely above the Clippers Team Fouls: 17.2 29th in the league, although that can be debated as a good thing or a bad thing. Opposing Team Fouls: 20.9 18th in the league Even without the injury plagued losing streak, the Rockets aren't playing good defense.
I don't think one can use the stats to prove something is true (there's always some exception) but it's more telling that most of the time Rockets play an unexciting, passive game on both ends of the court and this is told out in the stats. There are bright shining moments but not enough, dang it.
yeah, i think theese stats were posted up before a few times but it deserves its own thread it's weird you know, the rocks don't just lack hustle and intensity at times, it's almost as if they execute poorly off passes and plays. it seems to be as if the players are used to making things work off iso's alone and unfamiliar with having a string of plays work. and on defense, that lack of understanding shows even more.
What saddens me is Rudy's insistence on having offense-first players on the roster, rather than defensive stoppers. If you can shoot half decently, Rudy will take that over a defensive ballhawk.
The Rockets are infusing solid defenders. Griffin has the ability to be a Garnett-like intimidator/roamer/eraser. The other two rookies (Torres/Morris) are solid perimeter defenders. Mobley's D is much improved. The biggest sieves are Walt and Moochie. Walt is Walt, and Moochie can't stop shooters or penetrators.
Whoa. I like EG as much as the next guy, but Garnett is probably the best defender in the game. Griffin can be compared to Garnett, when/if he has the lateral quickness of KG. KG is basically a 6 ft 11 Gary Payton. Regardless, Rudy wouldn't want to utilize EG's shot blocking skills by employing a zone.
I think the most telling stat of the post is opp fg% and opp's to's forced. That means teams are just doing what they want and are getting uncontested shots. I could probably open this chapter up like the offense. Next time watch as see when a ny big man gets the rebound and pushes the ball up. You will see the guards just run back and not even challenge him dribbling the ball. Watch how many time Ward or Jackson pick up Francis or Norris whole court and watch how many times we do it to them. As a whole the knicks didn't or don't have very good individual defenders, but they compete and play hard on d. They front the post, they get their hands up on shooter and they force players baseline which gives you a extra defender. Basic basketball!
Stevie's signature defensive play - the come from behind monster block last season on the dude running a break (can't remember the actual against team, just the block).
Thats why I say this team doesn't play basic basketball, i was jumped on. I doesn't bother me as usual, but it just shows what kind of homer's are here which is ok. Basic Basketball that anyone on this team could: 1. Once the offense has a dead dribble, press up and play passing lanes. Results. Ball gets tipped and players get deflections which can and will lead to open court chances. 2. Front post. Result. probably the hardest pass to make in basketball especially from a non guard. Once the post entry passer picks up the ball, see number one. Makes the pass even more difficult. Other than Shaq , this rule is good. 3.Build pressure throughout the game. Result. decreases the time left on the shot clock, which decreases the chance of a fluid offense. This can be started by token pressure on the inbounds pass after made baskets and free throws. Next it goes to everyone picking up 3/4 court. Depending on the results, it would build speed of game, get deflections and tips, and thus leading to a team rushing to get a shot. These are basic defensive steps that can be used to get us out of the basement defensively and jump start our offense. This require no shot blocker and if you can't get players to play this style, we don't need them. I know it will be said that we will give up layups and stuff like that, but you must look and see how many bad decision and ball handlers there are in the nba today. Need to look no further than our own team and see how a team that puts a little pressure full court on us, and we struggle to get into any kind of offense. How come teams can devise a way to limit our Franchise 8 shots, but we can't do anything to limit their star players. Morris and Torres would fit great in this style and guys like rice and walt wouldn't, but who cares about them anyway?
I disagree with the comment made on Cuttino being disadvantaged with his size when playing D. You notice that when he plays he can get alot of steals and blocks because his arms are long for his height and he seems to know how to use it to his advantage. this team is lacking team defence... not individual D IMO. When we play great team D we always seem to have a better offensive night as well. This is vital to any success for the Rockets in the future.
i think he could be a good defender because he does have long arms. Starks was a good defender at 6'4, Dumars, and Payton also. He just has to compete everytime with the offensive player and don't allow him to get in a confort zone. I also its more about the team defensively than just individuals. Last yr the heat played with out zo and was still one of the better defensive teams. Sometimes a team can lead the nba in blks and still not be good defensively, look back at the mid 90's nuggets with mutombo. Its truly team defense that counts. It appears that it will get better with Morris, Torres and Griffin all seem to be willing to play good D.
