I thought this deserved it's own thread, along with the shoulder mechanics issue, it was discovered that Brad has been tipping his pitches. Lidge tipping pitches Lidge gets, gives some tips Astros pitcher hopes to get closer's job back. AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF Wednesday, May 17, 2006 HOUSTON — Brad Lidge has gotten a lot of tips this year in a baseball season gone wrong. He got another one last week. The tip came from Astros teammate Joe McEwing, an infielder and a recent callup from Round Rock. McEwing told Lidge he was the one with the tips. Brad Lidge, who had a career-high 42 saves last year, is trying to recover from 'a horrible month' in which he lost his job as a closer. It's hard enough to get batters out even if they don't know what's coming. In Lidge's case, many National League batters apparently did know what was coming. McEwing and Astros shortstop Adam Everett told Lidge that he was alerting hitters to his pitches. It was something McEwing said he picked up when he was with the Mets. "I've been tipping my pitches," a frustrated Lidge said, standing at his locker before Tuesday's game. When he pitched out of the stretch and came to a stop at his chest before coming home, it was a slider. When his hands rested at his belt, a fastball was on its way. Easy enough to decipher. "It really ticked me off," Lidge said, "because it took a month out of my career. It turns out to be a horrible month." Better a month than a monkey on his back that could last forever. Many have openly wondered if the home run blast by St. Louis slugger Albert Pujols in Game 5 of last year's NL Championship Series had shattered Lidge's confidence. Lidge has no idea if Pujols knew what was coming before the pitch was leaving the ballpark, although it was hit so hard that it's hard to imagine it not leaving a mark. Figuratively, too. Lidge, though, has been a standup guy, always talking and never hiding in the trainer's room after a loss. He's had a lot of practice this season after giving up runs in eight of his 20 appearances and having blown four saves in his last five chances. His earned-run average is an unhealthy 5.79. Having a reliable closer is fairly important, especially when it's someone like Lidge, who had a career-high 42 saves last year. "Brad Lidge is crucial for the success of this team," catcher Brad Ausmus said. "I don't think you can really win without a dominant closer," starter Andy Pettitte said. Short of re-signing Roger Clemens, straightening out Lidge surely ranks as the top priority if the Astros are to repeat as NL champions. Of course, Lidge has a new problem. The way the Giants have crushed Houston's starting pitching the last two nights, there's been nothing to close. The Astros have been finished before they've even come to bat in the fourth inning, losing 14-3 on Tuesday night after getting pounded 10-1 in Monday's opener. If Lidge is ever to regain his role and re-establish himself as one of the game's best closers, his teammates are going to have to help him out. Because of the lopsided scores, Lidge may not be able to prove he still has it until the starting pitching recovers or Clemens comes to the rescue. Even before Everett's and McEwing's inside knowledge, Lidge has gotten all sorts of tips. Needed to get back to a full windup, which he has. Has to keep his weight back. Should quit nibbling at the corners and become more aggressive. One well-wisher even wrote manager Phil Garner and told him he'd seen Bob Feller's very first game in the majors and could help Lidge out. "He looks a little sharper," Garner said of Lidge's last two outings in non-save situations. "It's an issue we'd like to get resolved. Of course, I'd like to score seven more runs a game." Even that wouldn't have been enough in the first two games of this series with San Francisco. Houston can get by with Dan Wheeler and Chad Qualls, although neither has a dominant pitch like Lidge's slider, which ranks with Mariano Rivera's cutter, Trevor Hoffman's changeup and Billy Wagner's fastball. Wheeler's efficient and Qualls has a great sinker, but neither is Lidge. Lidge, for sure, has had company this season. Lots of it. He need look no further than Seattle, where Eddie Guardado has lost his job. Or Texas, where Francisco Cordero was demoted. Keith Foulke has been replaced at Boston. Even those who have kept their jobs as closer have struggled. Wagner with the Mets. Even Rivera, arguably the best stopper of all time, has had off nights. "Mariano even got booed in New York," Ausmus said. "And New York loves Rivera." Closers everywhere are struggling. That may be for no other reason than baseball remains in an era of unmatched offensive zest. For closers, it comes with the territory. Lidge just wants to get back in the territory. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Sounds like batters KNEW what was coming and that my friends will work wonders for the hitters, and make our main man look pedestrian. I wonder why none of the managers found this out? DD
When you think back on it...doesn't this make tons of sense? guys weren't even moving the bat when he was throwing sliders. they were sitting dead-red on his fastball. guys who you wouldn't imagine hitting a dominant slider were hitting him really hard.
If he was smart, he would not have mentioned it and used it against the hitters, doing exactly the opposite, but at least now it will be fair again. I can't believe that Garner and Hickey did not pick up on this.... Shady, Lidge himself said it was true......... DD
Especially when the tips are so clear. It's actually kind of angering to think about it. Still, he's not locating his pitches well--they may be sitting on a fastball, but if the fastball is a foot off the plate, what does it matter?
Sounds too easy to be a complete fix, like "pitching from the stretch" was too easy. I hope it helps. Just as importantly, Lidge has to be able to throw that slider for a strike when he wants, and not just in the dirt. And he's been far too inconsistant with the fastball location, too. I just hope Lidge can turn it around soon, because I'm tired of hearing about Pujols and Game 5.
Sam, But if you think about it, this could be the root of the problem, hitters knew what was coming and waited on their pitch. Lidge was probably very frustrated and thus started over throwing. I am more upset that the coaches didn't pick up on this faster. DD
Could McEwing end up being our MVP of '06 if Lidge turns it around? If bringing this tid-bit to Brad solves his problem, what a great signing that little minor-leaguer was!
I'm just suprised that this is an article from an Austin paper... and this story wasn't fully reported in the chronicle. (Edit - n/m... just saw Justice's column today about it). Whether this is true or not, the most important thing is that Lidge BELIVES that this is a major reason why he was failing. His confidence, which could not have been that great no matter what he says, has to be imporved somewhat after this revelation (and just listening to his comments about how befuddled he was that batters weren't swinging at sliders in the dirt, and how he knows this had to be the reason, are evidence enough). Lidge has looked pretty good since scrapping the stretch, going back to the windup, and just throwing. All these other revelations (the shoulder, now the tipping) will just further improve his chances of making a full recovery. And in the end... if he can come back... he will be stronger than ever for being able to withstand this horrible stretch and learn something from it.
Garner was quoted in the Chronicle a couple of days (weeks) ago stating that Lidge was NOT tipping his pitches. Maybe they were looking in the wrong place for signs of tipping his pitch. If this proves to be the fix, Stros fans can breathe a HUGE sigh of relief (pun fully intended!!)
Or maybe they planned on using Lidge's "tipping patterns" to their advantage. I find it hard to believe if there was this much info going on about it (to the point that other players were calling his agent), that none of the coaches on the Astros knew nothing. A lot of times, they prefer this stuff to be kept in-house and corrected... without anybody ever really knowing, until its proven that he can succeed after making the corrections. So, either Justice et. al went over the managers head in reporting this, or the coaches are confident that Lidge will be fine afterwards that they didn't care anymore about the world finding out.
Houston Chronicle Article saying same thing Lidge was telegraphing his pitches By RICHARD JUSTICE Copyright 2006 Houston Chronicle Brad Lidge watched hours of video and received dozens of pieces of advice. And then Joe McEwing showed up from the minor leagues. As conversations go, theirs might be the most important of the season for the Astros. OK, the second-most important one. "Please, Roger, please," is roughly how the other one might be going. If Uncle Drayton isn't saying these exact words to Roger Clemens, he's certainly thinking it as he watches his young pitchers come undone a day at a time. Wandy Rodriguez became the latest, allowing six earned runs in 3 2/3 innings in a 14-3 loss to the San Francisco Giants on Tuesday night at Minute Maid Park. There was that one little moral victory. Barry Bonds didn't homer. Glacial pace Remember Bonds? That's eight games and 26 at-bats without one in a chase that has slowed to a crawl. At least the night had some juice. Oops, bad choice of words. Russ Springer provided it when he began playing target practice with Bonds in the fifth inning. His first pitch sailed behind Bonds, prompting a warning from plate umpire Joe West. Phil Garner trotted out to argue. Argue what? That Springer, who has hit 28 batters in 464 big-league appearances, was aiming for the inside corner. Springer threw at Bonds four more times. His final one caught him on the front shoulder, and Springer was ejected, along with Garner. Someone should sit these two down and tell them to behave. Springer has faced Bonds three times in five years. He allowed a home run in 2001 and apparently has some sort of grudge. He hit Bonds with a pitch the next time they faced one another (2004). And again Tuesday. As for Bonds, he isn't expected to start tonight, so his quest for his 714th home run to match Babe Ruth might be on hold until this weekend in Oakland, Calif. Advice from teammate Back to more important matters. While Lidge has been going through the worst stretch of his career, he was approached by McEwing last week. "I told him I had his pitches a couple of years ago (while playing with the Mets)," McEwing said. "I just mentioned it in conversation. Listen, it didn't help me against him. He has good enough stuff to get by regardless." Yes, but ... All the tipoffs came when Lidge was pitching from the stretch. Earlier this season, he began throwing exclusively from the stretch. Lidge's life suddenly got simpler. If hitters knew what was coming, he'd have to make perfect pitches to succeed. "Everybody was laying off my slider, and I was always falling behind," Lidge said. "Guys weren't swinging at my sliders in the dirt like before, which made me wonder. Then I was trying to be (overly) careful with my fastball." He has made two appearances since realizing he was putting his hands one place for a slider and another for a fastball. In two innings, he has allowed no base runners and thrown just 22 pitches. He finally has looked like the Brad Lidge of old, the guy who was as reliable as any closer in the game the past two seasons. Before that, he was a mess. He had allowed 10 base runners in his last three innings of work. He failed in four of his last eight save chances. He had blown as many saves in six weeks as he did all last season. Amateur psychologists pointed to last October's troubles, especially Albert Pujols' home run in Game 5 of the National League Championship Series. The problem with that theory is that Lidge wasn't acting like a guy who'd lost his nerve. He wasn't timid about throwing strikes. If anything, he was throwing too many. He still had a 97 mph fastball and an 88 mph slider. He had stuff other pitchers would die to have. Yet something was different. Hitters weren't swinging at the slider, forcing Lidge to throw more fastballs. He never had great command of his second pitch. Funny thing is, at times Lidge offered clues himself. "I guess I have to mix things up a little better," he said at one point. He'd had other hints. Well, more than hints. Adam Everett got a tip from another National League hitter that Lidge was tipping his pitches. The closer's agent heard from a player. When the Astros began looking at video of previous years, they found it. But Lidge is cautious about declaring the end of his troubles. "I'm still going to walk people, and I'm still going to give up some home runs, but ... " He won't finish that sentence. Yet. Garner, who removed Lidge from the closer's role last week, might soon hand the job back to him. On the plane ride home from Los Angeles last week, after his worst outing of the season, Lidge and pitching coach Jim Hickey watched video almost the entire flight. They found that Lidge needed to slow his shoulder and get his hand more behind the ball upon delivery. Doing so improves his control. "I think he's over the hump," Hickey said. "I don't doubt some teams felt they had something on him. That being said, the bedrock of his problem is throwing his fastball for a strike. "We have to keep working on that." He won't fix that part of the problem overnight. But if hitters no longer know which pitch is coming, Lidge will be on the road to recovery. "It really ticked me off because it took a month out of my career," Lidge said. "It was a horrible month." He's probably not as angry as those words sound. He's probably relieved. He can resume his career. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Wow - simply wow !
i figured something was up when lidge held up the sign that ausmus asked for everytime. makes sense..
He can tell Taylor not to throw pitches over the middle of the plate if he has an 0-2 count... I think the league picked up that "tip".
You don't want the slider being thrown for a strike. You want the slider to have the kind of break on it so that it looks like a fastball until the last millisecond and then breaks down into the dirt, or close to it. If you are routinely getting sliders in the strikezone the batters are going to be teeing off.
