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Let's Really Separate School and State

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Artesticle, Mar 23, 2009.

  1. Artesticle

    Artesticle Member

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    "I proclaim publicly that I favor ending government involvement in education."

    America was a free and thriving country, the envy of the world, well before compulsory state schooling was instituted.

    Let parents control all educational funding

    Education is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality and efficiency with more diversity of choice. Schools should be managed locally to achieve greater accountability and parental involvement. Recognizing that the education of children is inextricably linked to moral values, we would return authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government. Parents should have control of all funds expended for their children’s education.

    Poor kids end up at worst schools in current system

    Poor children suffer the most under the current education system. Wealthy parents can afford to send their children to better or safer schools. Poor parents have no choice. Their children generally end up in the schools with the worst problems. These children end up at a public school, which is obligated to accept every local student, even those who are not interested in learning or who have a reputation for being disruptive or dangerous. The current system traps poor children in poor schools.


    Separation of education and State

    Advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended. We call for the repeal of the guarantees of tax-funded, government-provided education, which are found in most state constitutions.

    End compulsory busing & compulsory education

    Condemn compulsory education laws, which spawn prison-like schools with many of the problems associated with prisons, and we call for an immediate repeal of such laws.

    Until government involvement in education is ended, we support elimination, within the governmental school system, of forced busing and corporal punishment. We further support immediate reduction of tax support for schools, and removal of the burden of school taxes from those not responsible for the education of children.




    Why Shouldn't the Government be Involved in Education?

    • Government schooling stands in direct opposition to the liberty this country was founded on.

    • It fosters unquestioning obedience, acceptance of authority, herd mentality, and dependency.

    • It manufactures "equality" by lowering standards.

    • It discourages individuality, innovation, curiosity, creativity and overall excellence.

    • It undermines families and other relationships.

    • It undermines religious beliefs, values and morality.

    • It fosters social, psychological, emotional and intellectual dysfunction and promotes immaturity and perpetual adolescence.

    • It makes children the victims of political change, special interests, researchers, unions and social reformers.

    • It undermines the ability of parents to provide their children with the quality and type of education they desire for them.
     
  2. aghast

    aghast Member

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    You shouldn't pass the "Libertarian party platform" off as your own ideas: http://www.ontheissues.org/Celeb/Libertarian_Party_Education.htm.

    Although, in a free market, plagiarism might be treated as less of a cardinal sin. I went to public school, so what do I know?

    Right now, this "free market" of education exists in most failed states across the globe. Somehow, the free market of the Somali educational system does not yet rival our own meager, taxpayer-funded one.

    In such a "free market," the wealthy are the only ones who can afford to educate their children, in private schools or by tutors. But no matter, as they too die of frequent poisonings, as their illiterate servants/McD's employees accidentally sprinkle lye on top of the French fries, instead of the salt.
     
  3. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    From a conservative with a lot of libertarian viewpoints: The key word there is compulsory, not state. A huge part of our development as a thriving country was from "state schooling". It was so important in Texas that a public school system was established right after the Republic won its independence. But for most of the history of the growth of this country, public schools were voluntary. All of the landowners (or whatever) in the district paid for them, but if the students and/or their parents thought that their kids were better off at home, on the farm, or at the store, they quit school and learned "life lessons". Was it the best for the kids? Not always, but sometimes it was. More importantly, it was a freer system, and decisions about education were made by people who cared.
     
  4. aghast

    aghast Member

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    ^^^

    Yes, and the original post ignores the reality that something very similar already occurs today, as any parent who wishes can home- or private-(/church-)school their child(ren), with relatively little oversight from the evils of government schoolmasters.
     
  5. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    There's so many disagreements with that statement, I don't even want to take the time to articulate them.
     
  6. Artesticle

    Artesticle Member

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    I never tried to pass it as my own, just like most of the subject matters here. I don't think may would believe that I personally wrote all of that. It is just a response to the liberal cry for the separation of church and state. I don't understand why there isn't same clamor against the socialist government indoctrination itself.
     
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Your response to the establishment clause of the first amendment to the U.S. Constitution, aka "the liberal cry for the separation of church and state", is copy pasting a Libertarian sermon on education funding? :confused:
     
  8. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    The separation of church and state was written into our constitution. It is spelled out. The separation of school and state is something made up later on buy people who were not the founding fathers.

    There are plenty of problems with schools, but removing govt. funding and mandatory school attendance from the equation isn't a solution
     
  9. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    Link ?
     
  10. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    Take a look at all the countries where kids are performing better than the US. Do you even see a single system like the one you proposed? Do you see one out of the top 10? What a stupid idea.
     
  11. Artesticle

    Artesticle Member

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    It's about indoctrination. Liberals so nuts about socialist compulsory pledges of allegiance to the state (only because of the word god) but have no problems with the entire compulsory education propagandist system. Compulsory education laws are unconstitutional. They are contrary to liberty and freedom.
     
  12. LScolaDominates

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    I take it you were on the receiving end of one-too-many wedgies growing up.
     
  13. Steve_Francis_rules

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    You and OddsOn sure have been throwing around the word unconstitutional a lot lately.

    By the way, posting a long block of text with no references to where it came from, does come across as trying to pass it off as your own.
     
  14. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    I would agree this is a pretty ridiculous idea. I don't see how anyone would think that privatizing school will change the outcome on distribution of poor students. It would actually make it worse. There still would be a state school, except it would be MUCH worse than it is now, which would house all the poor students. Actually, come to think of it, this is pretty much how it is ran now.

    The problem is not with the schools but the home. Many of our societies problems could be better off if parents would start to be more responsible. I do agree there needs to be less indoctrinating in core classes.
     
  15. Artesticle

    Artesticle Member

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    Yes, absolutely. But what incentive to parents have to be involved when the state is responsible for the education of their children?
     
  16. FranchiseBlade

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    The same incentive parents have always had. If they want the best for their children and are able to, their involvement is crucial.
     
  17. pmac

    pmac Member

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    People who agree with this have not seen the worst or our society and their parenting ability, or lack there of.

    Their children would be doomed. It is OUR responsibility as caring people to create the best learning opportunities for the next generation.
     
  18. Major

    Major Member

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    If it's unconstitutional, why haven't you or anyone else filed a lawsuit to have the courts declare it so? It seems a pretty simple way to get to your goal, if you're so sure that the system is illegal.
     
  19. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    The US education system is bad, so let's make it even worse! What a smart idea! :eek:
     
  20. Artesticle

    Artesticle Member

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    It is your responsibility to educate your children and my responsibility to educate mine. I have no responsibility to educate your children.
     

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