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Lawrence Haas: Democrats should beware of the post-Vietnam syndrome

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Feb 15, 2007.

  1. basso

    basso Member
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    http://www.examiner.com/a-566636~La...ould_beware_of_the_post_Vietnam_syndrome.html


    Lawrence J. Haas, former communications director for Vice President Al Gore, is vice president of the bipartisan Committee on the Present Danger.


    [rquoter]WASHINGTON - Reading the polls, congressional Democrats are racing to distance themselves from the war in Iraq, competing over who has got the best proposal for a speedy exit of U.S. troops.

    History suggests, however, they should look down the road. They may be planting the seeds for a trip to the political wilderness for their party in the near future, akin to what happened after Vietnam.

    The parallels are striking. In 1975, a Democratic Congress cut off funds for the U.S. effort in Vietnam. The public, disillusioned over Vietnam and Watergate, elected Jimmy Carter, who promised honesty and applauded the end of “our irrational fear of Communism.”

    As America turned inward in the late 1970s, enemies sensed our vulnerability and dangers mounted. The fear of communism was not so irrational after all. In Ethiopia, Angola, Rhodesia and elsewhere, the Soviet Union or Cuba worked to stoke Third World revolution. The Soviets more openly laid bare their expansionist agenda in late 1979 by invading Afghanistan.

    Meanwhile, the Islamic Revolution in Iran of 1979 toppled a staunch U.S. ally. The student seizure of the U.S. embassy in Tehran, leading to a 444-day hostage crisis, painted a picture of American impotence.

    But, as the decade came to a close, Americans had had enough of defeat and humiliation. Just five years after Americans had bid goodbye to Vietnam and turned inward, they elected Ronald Reagan, who promised to rebuild the nation’s defenses and stop the drift of U.S. foreign policy. Indeed, in that campaign season, Reagan called Vietnam a “noble cause.”

    Reagan’s election initiated a long period of Democratic struggle to compete for the White House. While Reagan looked ahead and projected strength, Democrats looked back, focused on the failure of Vietnam, and expressed hesitancy about America’s role in the world. Not surprisingly, voters came to question the Democrats’ ability to protect the nation.

    Will history repeat itself? To be sure, the White House seems an achievable target for Democrats in 2008, just as it was in 1976. Public disenchantment with President Bush in general, and with the war in Iraq in particular, should give Democrats a good head start.

    Leading Democrats, none more so than their presidential candidates, are disavowing their previous votes or statements for the war and competing for anti-Bush purity. They are demanding that Bush end the war in Iraq before the next (presumably Democratic) president takes office in 2009. Momentum is building to block funding later this year.

    But, in playing to their anti-war political base, congressional Democrats are pushing party orthodoxy on foreign policy further to the left. After a two-year campaign, any successful Democratic candidate for president may wind up with little leeway to project U.S. power abroad.

    Unfortunately, the world will not likely cooperate with a hemmed-in president. Just as Soviet expansionism in the late 1970s reminded America that the Cold War was still on, so may the aftermath of Iraq remind Americans of the larger struggle at hand. Just as our withdrawal from Vietnam emboldened the Soviets, a withdrawal from Iraq may do likewise for today’s enemies.

    Clearly, a failure in Iraq will create a haven for terrorists, including those from al-Qaida whom we are fighting there today. It will create a regional power vacuum to be filled by an increasingly emboldened Iran, which is stoking the fires in Iraq while ignoring international efforts to stop its nuclear program.

    The world will grow more dangerous, not less. Failure in Iraq, leading to an exodus of U.S. forces, will provide merely the illusion of peace. The terrorists will challenge the United States in more places around the world while plotting to bring more turmoil to our homeland.

    At some point, the nation will recapture its spirit. Taunted by our enemies or attacked directly, Americans will look to the party that is ready to respond in kind. Will Democrats once more be on the losing end?
    [/rquoter]
     
  2. FranchiseBlade

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    How many faces do you have? Certainly at least two.

    Other people aren't allowed to use Vietnam comparisons when discussing Iraq in a thread on historical comparison, and yet you can use them whenever you feel?

    You might want to think about what you want to do on this board. Do you want to be taken seriously, or do you want to be a joke?
     
  3. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Defeat and humiliation is pretty much the liberals' vision for our country, judging by their behavior.
     
  4. kpsta

    kpsta Member

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    Just defeat and humiliation? Wait a minute... so you're telling me that I've been striving for moral turpitude in vain for these last few years? :(
     
  5. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    isnt baghdad basso the one who is always getting on people for comparing iraq to vietnam? yet he posts this? and hasnt he also compared iraq to WWII?

    why the double standard baghdad basso?
     
  6. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    face it tradertexx, you and your wacko-moon bat views are in the extreme minority now. and look at the troops.

    how do you feel about the military times poll which said that 50% of the troops who have served in iraq and afghanistan are against our continued occupation of iraq? do you honestly believe that 50% of the troops who have served hate america and want the troops to fail?

    50% of those polled say there is no chance for success in iraq.
    only 35% approve of bush's handling of the war while 42% disapprove.
    59% say it was a mistake to invade in the first place.

    tradertexx, so you must think the troops are defeatists and liberals too, right?
     
  7. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    And how do you feel about a majority of Democratic voters being in favor of cutting off funding to the troops? Yet another attempt at slow-bleeding the War on Terror and trying their best to guarantee defeat.
     
  8. FranchiseBlade

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    he is full of double standards. he believes it is wrong for other nations to supply arms that kill U.S. soldiers, but thinks that it is ok for the U.S. to supply arms, money, and provide shelter to groups that kill another nation's soldiers.
     
  9. FranchiseBlade

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    1. You didn't answer the question.

    2. They are in favor of cutting off the troops in Iraq, in order to bring them home, where they will be very well funded. They are not in favor of cutting off the troops in the war on terror.
     
  10. basso

    basso Member
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    are you ok w/ consigning the people of iraq to the holy sturmscheise that surely awaits them if we pull out? are you ok w/ a taliban style regime in iraq? are you ok w/ an ascendant iran dominating the persian gulf? do you believe leaving the people of iraq to the tender mercies of the islamo fascists will in anyway make the US safer?
     
  11. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Everything Bushco has said about this war has been wrong. WRONG!!!

    Why in hell would any sane person believe this would happen just because Jr says it will?
     
  12. FranchiseBlade

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    I will answer these questions when you answer the question I asked months earlier. If we stay another 2-5 years and lose another 2-5 years worth of troops and then pull out, what will have changed that prevents any of that from happening then?

    What are we currently doing with success that will make it different should we pull out in a couple of years?
     
  13. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Of course not, but it is increasingly looking like the utter incompetence of the administration is leaving us with something like this as an only option... the only questions being now or later, less or more American deaths.

    Regarding your first post... Liberals were right about Civil Rights and did something about it, even though it was recognized at the time that the conservatives would be electorally strengthened for a generation or more.

    Liberals were right about Vietnam and did something about it, even though the conservatives made it clear they would beat them over the head with it for a generation.

    Liberals are right about Iraq and even though the Conservatives are already scheming to blame the administration's catastrophic screw-ups on any action to do something about Iraq, I bet the Liberals do something about it.
     
  14. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    answer my question first coward.
     
  15. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    why dont you ask all the troops who you claim want the u.s. to fail?

    and why the double standard w/ the iraq-vietnam comparisons?
     
  16. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    Change a few words, and your statement looks oddly reminiscent of some stuff they said 40 years ago.
     
  17. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    wow, that right there is a tongue lashing.
     
  18. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    And you're not only OK with the man who brought this tragedy upon the Iraqi people and this country, you sing his praises and shine his shoes. There is a major disconnect with you, basso, and it is a disconnect with reality. Everything you mentioned, things that may or may not happen, would be the direct result of the failure of leadership of your hero, George W. Bush. I just hope we can go the rest of his term without getting into another war, because he has proven his incompetence.



    D&D. Go Figure.
     
  19. SuperYanthrax

    SuperYanthrax Member

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    You realize that the neocon vision for the US is for it to take over the world, right?

    Funny how that's not working out. Even silly little countries like Iraq can bog you down and halt your progress. I mean, if you can't even take over Iraq, what are you going to do about Russia and China?
     
  20. basso

    basso Member
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    and they were right.

    http://www.dithpran.org/killingfields.htm

    [rquoter]On April 17th, 1975 the Khmer Rouge, a communist guerrilla group led by Pol Pot, took power in Phnom Penh, the capital of Cambodia. They forced all city dwellers into the countryside and to labor camps. During their rule, it is estimated that 2 million Cambodians died by starvation, torture or execution. 2 million Cambodians represented approximately 30% of the Cambodian population during that time.

    The Khmer Rouge turned Cambodia to year zero. They banned all institutions, including stores, banks, hospitals, schools, religion, and the family. Everyone was forced to work 12 - 14 hours a day, every day. Children were separated from their parents to work in mobile groups or as soldiers. People were fed one watery bowl of soup with a few grains of rice thrown in. Babies, children, adults and the elderly were killed everywhere. The Khmer Rouge killed people if they didn’t like them, if didn’t work hard enough, if they were educated, if they came from different ethnic groups, or if they showed sympathy when their family members were taken away to be killed. All were killed without reason. Everyone had to pledge total allegiance to Angka, the Khmer Rouge government. It was a campaign based on instilling constant fear and keeping their victims off balance.

    After the Vietnamese invaded and liberated the Cambodian people from the Khmer Rouge, 600,000 Cambodians fled to Thai border camps. Ten million landmines were left in the ground, one for every person in Cambodia. The United Nations installed the largest peacekeeping mission in the world in Cambodia in 1991 to ensure free and fair elections after the withdrawal of the Vietnamese troops. Cambodia was turned upside down during the Khmer Rouge years and the country has the daunting task of healing physically, mentally and economically. [/rquoter]
     

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