Law School: How Much Do Rankings Matter?

I guess it depends on what type of law you want to practice. If you want to make $110-130k working for a big law firm, it helps to go to a top 25 school. If you want to work for small firms, the government, or non-profit organizations, you are better off going to a lower-ranked school and avoid adding 50-120K on your student loans.

I don't know a lot about Baylor, but my sense is that it doesn't have much of a national reputation (apologies if I'm mistaken). You think you want to stay in Houston right now, but what if you change your mind later on? Baylor will not open as many doors for you in other cities as UVA would.

Of course, some lower-ranked schools have very strong employment records in the local market. For example, I know that in Los Angeles, UCLA and USC grads gets hired at similar (or even higher) rates as people from higher-ranked law schools. This is obviously because there are a lot of Bruin and Trojan alumni here, so the support network is pretty strong.

How Strong is Baylor's Local Network?

There are a couple ways to find out. One is by posting your question at the Greedy Associates board. That board was a great resource for me when I was looking for a job (I was in the LA board, so I don't know if the Texas board is just as helpful).

You should also check out eac law school's career services' website. During your second year in law school, employers come on campus to interview the top prospects. The number and type of employers that come on campus is a good indication of (1) how employers perceive your school, and (2) how competent your career services office is. These interviews are called either OCIP or OCI. Browse around Baylor's site and compare it to the other schools. You might even want to call them and ask for a list of last year's employers who attended.

The third way to gauge Baylor's pull is by contacting legal headhunters. Headhunters know better than anyone the pulse of the "big firm" market. Your local headhunter can tell you whether Baylor grads are competitive for big firm jobs. Off the top of my head, some headhunter firms you can contact are Update Legal, Kelly Law Registry, Special Counsel, Robert Half Legal, and Hudson Legal.

A headhunter's job is to network. They should be happy to speak with you, since in three years you will become a potential customer.

Interest in Specialties?

If a lower-ranked school has a strong program in a specific specialty you want to study, that specialty trumps the higher ranking. Of course, I don't really know a lot of entering 1Ls who really know what they want to study. But in case you do, make sure you take this into consideration.

Big firm life sucks

High-ranked schools help with the big firm interviews, but you should ask yourself if big firm life is for you. I've done the big firm thing: Working 14 hours a day, doing meaningless work, or worse, defending corporations whose interests are almost always directly opposed to the interests of the public. It is tiring, soul-sucking work.

But if you rack up a huge student loan debt from UVA, you'll have no choice but to work for big firms, at least for the first few years.

Finally, I'll give you the same advice my lawyer friend gave me when I wanted to go to law school: Don't do it, being a lawyer sucks!

Well, I didn't listen to him and I'm sure you won't listen to me.

Good luck!

 

liars. lawyers, same difference

 

I wish you the best of luck, halfbreed.

We need more lawyers in the world. Because the old way of converting people by biting them on the neck is kind of unsanitary.

Make sure you visit the Greedy Associates board and post your question there as well. I did a quick search on "baylor" and saw many intersting posts. For example:

So if this post is correct, that means Baylor beats out UVA and Harvard.

Of course, one has to take into consideration that probably more Baylor students applied than Harvard students. But still, the numbers are encouraging.

 

Before you take that full scholarship at Baylor, I'd talk to a few of the students there. Baylor used to be notorious for a low curve (still is), but even worse is that they were notorious for making it impossible to keep scholarships. People in the top quarter were losing scholarships. I heard that they reformed this policy, so find some students at Baylor Law and see what is up.

 

halfbreed,

If you're not sure you want to do litigation, I would highly recommend not going to Baylor. It is very litigation-heavy. PC (practice court) in their last two quarters (they're not on the semester system) of law school is brutal. It prepares you well for that field of law and you can definitely make a lot of money in your first year. I know of several Baylor law school grads who made ~$95k in their first year. But again, they're all litigators.

Baylor also has an extremely nice and beautiful law school that just opened in 2002. If I wanted to do litigation and was in your shoes, I'd definitely choose Baylor. My ex ended up out of school with a $63k student loan debt. That's a valuable scholarship.

 

i work at a small - but very good - law firm in austin, and i've been told this by several of the attorneys. they're good at what they do, and you can tell.... but they all say that it is nonstop work, and very stressful - hence the great pay.

basically, they've said if you (i) aren't 100% sure that being a lawyer is what you want to do w/ your life, then it probably isn't the career path for you.

take it for what it's worth.

 

I don't know if it is a case of "grass is greener on the other side," but I always thought transactional lawyers live more balanced, fulfilling lives. Sure, they also have to put in insane hours at times to get a deal done, but their work, by nautre, is more collaborative and less contentious.

On the other hand, litigation is more recession-proof. Transactional work often tracks the economy--when the economy is bad, the first lawyers to get fired are often the M&A lawyers. But competent litigators are always in demand.

 

Edit:

Unless you REALLY want to work in MD, VA, or NC, or somwhere on the Eastern seaboard, go Baylor for free

 

I worked at one of the big three Houston law firms. If you go to Baylor, You have to graduate at the top of the class to get hired. If you go to Texas you have to graduate in the top quarter. Not sure about Virginia. But it has an excellent reputation. Probably need to graduate top third or less.

Top third was the rule for Georgetown, the other school I considered and was admitted to. Went to Texas because of the $15,000 or so difference in annual tuition. If I could go back, likely would have gone to Georgetown with the benefit of hindsight. Was a UT undergraduate. And money wasn't an issue. Could have used a change of scenery.

Last I remember, Virginia was a top ten school. Number eight when I applied. Texas is usually a top twenty school. Number 15 most years. Georgetown is comparable to Texas, not Virginia, by the way. My advice. It depend on how big the money issue is for you. But generally, go to the best school you get in to.

I've always heard great things about Virginia. If you got in to Virginia, you should get in to Teaxs. No worries.

I'd go to Texas before Baylor, even on scholarhip. Texas tuition is reasonable, at least when I was there. But I hear it went up. Also, if Baylor gave you a full scholarsip, there's a chance Texas will give you some money too. When you get in to Texas, you can tell them about Baylor and ask them about it.

Wait to see about those other four schools. And again, generally, you should go to the best one you get in to. This may sound elitist, but Texas is as low as you should go. Unless money is a BIG issue. Generally, people who go to Baylor couldn't get in to Texas.

Good luck!

 

dont forget to think about where you want to practice. I grew up in Houston but went to law school at Washington University in St. Louis. I practiced in St. Louis for a couple of years before deciding that I wanted to move back. I will tell you this, if you want to practice in Texas it is better to go to a Texas school unless you are going to get into a top five law school such as yale, harvard, etc.

As for jobs, the better ranked school you go to, the deeper the big firms will go into the class.

 

I went to UVA law and have a brother who went to W&L law. While both schools are excellent academically, UVA's reputation goes a little further in Houston.

I assume you have visited W&L, but if not you need to carefully consider the environment. Lexington is a very small town without much to do other than the outdoor activities in the area. My bro had a great experience at W&L, but the students there have to make their own fun. If you have ever lived in a small town, you know what I mean. If you are big into cultural activities, it is probably a no go.

As far as the Baylor/W&L decision, it will really only make a difference with your first job. Once you have a few years experience, where you went to law school doesn't matter so much other than bragging rights . Since law school generally isn't considered the most fun way to spend three years, I would go where you think you will be happiest.

 

Thing is, after about 5 years or so, your grades and school do not matter that much. However, your school can determine whether you get those "top" jobs, and that first job determines where you start on the "Lawyers ladder". However, that only depends if you want to compete against other lawyers and do the same type of jobs as they do. If you want more money, want to work in a big firm and go through a few years of hell out of school go to UVA, you will probably be debt free after 4 years in a big firm. If you want to specialize in something specific that not many lawyers want to do, or use the law degree just for your own business purposes, go to Baylor for the free trip.

Basically, if you want to work in a career-path that will evaluate you based on your numbers and ranking, go to the school which has the better ranking.

Also, If you believe that since VA is a better school, that you would do better grades-wise in Baylor, squash that assessment right now. law school is killer no matter where you go, and from talking to profs who have taught at different schools, they say the quality of students, and difficulty really isn't that different. Almost everyone in a top 50 school was smart in some way shape or form, your grades depend on luck sometimes more than your effort or "intelligence".

hope that helps, this is coming from someone in his second year who just got his summer job after months of the applying period which I guarantee will be painful to you.

 

This is true. However, I would expand on the "luck" concept a bit.

It has been my experience that the smartest people aren't always the ones with the best grades. Often times, the smart bookworms get too bogged down in details and try to memorize everything. Unless you have a photographic memory or plan on studying 23 hours a day, that is not the way to go.

The people with the good grades are often the guys who "get" law school. They know how to work the system--they get outlines from upperclassmen, check professor evaluations before signing up for a class, join clubs to get course outlines, learn how to IRAC effectively, skip lectures that are obviously unhelpful, and know how to get the most out of study groups.