Law School (Advice getting in)

Take as many practice LSATs as you can. Your intelligence level doesn't matter because the test is scaled. Meaning that relative to the people you are testing against (other bright young high achievers), you could very well do poorly on the exam. I was practice testing in the 170s and ended scoring in the low 160s on test day, which is still in the 80th percentile, but it was disappointing.

The first things the school will look at is your GPA/LSAT. If your score is high enough here, then you don't have to worry about your undergrad school's prestige. If not, then its one more thing the school will consider in evaluating your candidacy.

I am a 2L at UHLaw, and its a good school. For what I want, I think the school will be able to provide access to solid jobs here in the Houston area. If I had a chance to do it over again, I would probably retake the LSAT and try to get into a top 14 school.

I wouldn't bother going to a really low ranked school unless you just have an insatiable desire to be a lawyer. Law school is an expensive investment, and private schools are much more expensive then state schools. That said, in Texas, get into UT (preferably) or UH. After that, I'd go to SMU if I had a sizable scholarship, but I wouldn't go to any school outside of that.

Or what do I know, you could get a 180 LSAT and waltz into New Haven .

 

You should be pooty doctor.

 

I don't know what kind of law you want to be practicing, but....
if you ask just about any big firm lawyer they will tell you NOT to enter the industry. I have never been one to step on someone's dreams, or discourage education but... I sadly have to agree with them.

First, your UTA education isn't going to hinder you too much if you get a great LSAT score. Once again, I don't know how hard you want to work in law school, or highly ranked you want to get in. Doing "OK" is not enough to get into a "decent" law school but... I don't know what you mean by decent.

To get a great LSAT score, you should do lots of practice exams (order them from lsac.org) and I recommend Powerscore Logic Games Bible and Powerscore Logical Reasoning Bible as very good supplements. I mean, I HIGHLY recommend those. Just look on amazon for how people rate them. They are far better than taking a Kaplan course. I know this because I took a Kaplan course, and was a Kaplan instructor for a short time.

The LSAT is about 50% of what they consider in the admissions process. Every question can mean the difference between schools, so you want to be very good at the LSAT. That being said, unless you are automatically scoring very high on practice exams, you should take more time to practice for the lsat. You only get two chances to take the exam. One time is preferred.

It seems to me that Law schools care about the bottom line: how you affect their ranking.
Ranking is based a lot upon the GPA number, and the LSAT number that an incoming student brings. Therefore, you UTA education is just fine if you can get a high LSAT.
At the same time, the employment upon graduation for its students is also an important factor. If they think you're dumb, then they may think you are less likely to graduate with a job.

Back to the legal world right now. Big law firms are firing a lot of people. These people cannot find jobs right now. Every government job has been taken, and every volunteer position has practically been taken. If a law firm wants to hire someone, they'd go to someone who has experience over people fresh out of law school.

HARVARD students are having trouble finding jobs right now.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=avCjq2MsxrnQ
People predict that its going to be like this for the next year or two. I STRONGLY advise you to at least take a year off. And considering that you'd take a year off, you can REALLY focus on the LSAT. If you don't get into a good school these days, you don't even have a chance. I mean... Harvard students..... I'm friends with a Harvard girl, she couldn't get a job at all, until she landed one very late in the game. My friend at Penn law (a highly rated school) is having a lot of trouble with interviews right now. She only has a few call-backs and those are likely to fail because law firms are just not hiring. (it used to be that call-backs were practically automatic) Sure, they'll have little trouble giving you a call-back interview but... actually hiring you is another matter. She is trying to find jobs at mid-size law firms but those aren't even working for her either... She has a great GPA too.

My friend at Sidley Austin - Chicago office, one of the top, prestigous law firms in the country, and the very exact same office that Barack and Michele Obama went to... Sidley has not even told their summer associates whether they earned a job position. It used to be set tradition that everyone gets offers once you summer, and you used to be told this after a week. It has been a month and a half.

I have so many stories I could tell you about friends that are in all levels of law firm life - small, medium, big, government, volunteering... it's all blown to hell. It's even difficult to get volunteer positions now!!!!

Anyways, I strongly advise you to take a year off because things are going to be bad in big law firms, mid-size law firms, and small firms as well as government. There is a good chance that the legal industry is going to fundamentally change, and you will want to make your decision about going into law only after you see how it all will settle.

A legal education (LOTS of debt, and 3 years of out of your life) is not worth it if you can't get many job prospects. You'll definitely have trouble paying that debt off. Wait until things settle down at least.

As for me... I am still with big law but... things are bad right now and... I'm scared. Hold me.

 

That was supposed to be a

Man, i ruined the whole ff*kin post.

 

I was planning on going to law school too, but this thread is quite discouraging.

 

I just graduated from a good law school, passed the bar, and my advice to anyone considering law school right now is this:

DON'T DO IT.

This may very well be the worst time period ever to be entering the legal industry. Go work for a few years, get some money and experience. Then in a few more years after the dust settles if you still have the urge to go to law school, go for it.

 

I'm in law school as well and would like to echo the sentiments of the people in this thread. I'll add a couple of caveats. If you don't care about making a lot of money right away (ie want to start your own solo practice firm), then maybe it's OK time to go to law school. But don't expect to get a great job.

I started law school in 06 and took a semester off after my 2nd year. After talking to a few people that I would have graduated with...the job prospects are not hot right now.

I know a guy that is in the top 15% of his law class at UH and is having a hard time finding a paid summer gig.

 

If you're serious about the LSAT, take a prep class. Sure, they look expensive, but you'll be prepared for the exam. The cost will be offset by the results.

 

Others can chime in about working for the government or more traditional solo practice, but now is not the time to go to law school if your pursuit is BigLaw. Don't be suckered by schools into thinking $160K starting salary is a birth right.

www.abovethelaw.com <== required reading if you are looking at BigLaw.

 

Having been an ex-LSAT instructor I'd disagree with this. The average score increase from your initial practice exam is 7 points. You can accomplish the same or better result on your own through the taking of old exams. Make sure you get the actual old LSAT exams from the LSAT people directly, all the other people who write exams just don't get it right.

As for getting into a good law school, pretty much every law school will show you their median GPA/LSAT score for admissions. The school you are coming from does make a difference as your GPA is forgiven more if you come from a better undergrad school, but if your GPA is high enough they will look the other way. I went to UT Law and was good friends with a guy who got a free ride at UT and also got into Harvard Law because he sported a high LSAT and a 4.0 from a 4th tier undergrad school - so if your GPA is high most admission boards will look the other way in regards to what school you went to.

As for what everyone else is saying - yes, this is a very grim time for new lawyers. I don't practice "big law" so I don't have as much experience with this as others do, but I know people who are just getting out of law school and it has not been easy for them. But keep in mind I know many people who went to law school and did not go on to be lawyers, but were still very successful.

Just remember, if you want a good job out of law school - regardless of where you go - you'll need to keep your grades high.

Good luck

 

Why exactly is it a bad time for being a lawyer? Is it due to the recession?

 

I think that and the fact that there appears to be a paradigm shift in terms of legal billing: more clients negotiating the final charges, a small but possibly growing attempt to switch away from billable hours to flat fees.

I still can't see myself advising someone against getting education for a field they want to work in, long term. Whatever career-based education you want in life, I think you'd want to do it sooner rather than later: when bills, family and an ever decreasing number of living, financial supportive relatives makes it harder to do. Better advice might be to do it, but manage your job and payment expectations and be willing to look at alternative careers where you can still employ your legal skills. Or just pony up the extra time and cash to get a JD/MBA.

 

UT is an historically, nationally recognized law program that even George W. Bush couldn't get into back in the '70s. The fact that it's at a public school in a relatively inexpensive part of the country (Texas, not Austin) probably makes it the wisest choice. I think Tulane is pretty well-regarded also. Houston is probably a good deal cost-wise, and you get the presumably added benefit of being in a big job market, as you would with SMU. I don't know anything about Baylor, but presumably it's better than South Texas or TSU/Thurgood? I wonder what the lawyers here think is a better idea, going to highest-rank school you can get into regardless of location, or just going to the best law school in the largest city possible?

 

Just graduated from UT and will start my BigLaw career in November. It's tough in the industry right now but if it's something you really want to do there really is no point in waiting, I'd say. Also, practice as many LSATs as you can. I took Kaplan and they helped me out a little bit (went from 165 at the start to 173 on test day).

In the end, I might have not done Kaplan if I had to choose again because it was a lot of money for a negligible increase that I could have probably earned myself with enough practice. If you're a self starter, buying a couple of books and working them yourself should be enough.

 

I graduated from UH law school a few years ago and am currently a civil litigator in Chicago. I got into USC, UT, Emory and Notre Dame. In hindsight I can't stress enough how important it is that you go to the best school you get accepted to.

Yes, you can still do well with hard work, but it is a whole lot harder and some firms wont give you a shot without a big name school on your resume.

 

currently in my last year of the three year JD/MBA program at Northwestern.

Can't re-iterate the advice in this thread enough. Big Law is changing, there is a paradigm shift, and unfortunately, the practice of law isn't as fun as Law and Order makes it out to be. Law students are freaking out right now about not getting jobs - and yet, there are tons of young associates that hate their legal careers and want to get out.

My advice is easy - make sure you WANT to be a lawyer. It's a lot of money and time to invest without being sure. Work or volunteer with a lawyer for a bit.

 

I dunno, my practice is sort of like Law and Order meets Reno 911. There is life outside of civil practice you know.