Latest Miller and Artest trade proposal

How are they proven starters? They put up ok stats on the worst team in the league. I think both Artest and Miller would be bench players on a good team.

 

they might or might not be proven starters but our 1st round pick is no sure starter and we KNOW langhi and Williams will have no contribution in getting us back to the finals..

 

I can't beleive that you just said you don't know if you'd make this trade....Chicago will spit in our face....They don't ant anymore draft picks, their own is enough.....You're taking 2 starters from their team....One of them has credit from MJ as being an EXCELLENT defender, and has, this season, become an average offensive player. The other, Brad Miller, can pull down rebounds like crazy, while being a force on offense, and a big body on defence. Also, he's top 5 or so in FT attempts per game, LEAGUE-wide.


We trade Walt Williams (cap space is insignificant for them now), Dan Langhi (where they have Eddie Robinson and Mercer as well as Artest barring this trade), and our draft pick, which is probably outside the top 5 and gives them a young player they don't want.


I think Chicago would laugh at anyone that proposes this trade.

 

That's funny, I thought we were the ones getting shafted. Artest and Miller are both solid players, but we're talking about a lotto pick and probably a good one at that. We're currently tied for 4th worst in the league. With a good second half, we can climb the charts some, but won't do better than 9th worst (nestling into that big gap between Charlotte and New York) in all likelihood. Depending on the strength of the draft, we might have an opportunity to grab a great player. I wouldn't want to give that opportunity away for 2 merely solid players. I don't think Chicago would either.

 

This doesn't help Chicago in any way, other than the pick.

I sincerely doubt that Krause would.....well.....he did trade Brand for Chandler.

Nah, he'd never do this trade.

 

Sorry, but this deal can't be done, because of the CBA. We can't trade this year's pick, because we owe next year's pick to Memphis for the Francis trade.

http://www.members.home.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#75

76. Teams can't trade away their first-round draft picks in consecutive years?
This is called the "Ted Stepien Rule." Stepien owned the Cavs from 1980-83, and made a series of bad trades that cost the Cavs several years' first round picks. The trades, as columnist Chris Young put it, "amounted to giving up Manhattan for a bag of beads." As a result of Stepien's ineptitude, a rule was introduced which prevents teams from making trades which might leave them without a future first-round draft pick in consecutive years.

This rule applies only to future first round picks. For example, if this is the 99-00 season, then teams can trade their 2000 first round pick without regard to whether they had a 1999 pick, since their 1999 pick is no longer a future pick. But they can't trade away both their 2000 and 2001 picks, since both are future picks. Teams sometimes work around this rule by trading first round picks in alternate years.

In addition, teams are required to have only a first round pick, and not necessarily their first round pick. So teams may trade away their own future picks in consecutive years if they have another team's first round pick in one of those years.

We could however, draft a player for Chicago & trade his rights to Chicago, but Walt's contract will expire before then. Therefore, this deal can not happen, unless Chicago gives us a #1 pick this year or next & I doubt they'd do that for that trade proposal. Sorry.

 

Good point, but I don't think I would necessarily do that deal, unless the pick was out of the top 6-7 picks.

 

I have to reply to this one.

Being in Iowa City, my major newspaper read is the Chicago Tribune. Scuttlebutt says Krause wants to trade so that he can get another #1 draft pick. While this seems ignorant (and it is), I think he's got an eye on the off-season. Not to mention Reinsdork the owner is trying to go cheap after two or three years of paying Michael Jordan.

Also, I have seen the Bulls play on TV (my roommate's favorite team; of course, he's almost as rueful as me, the Rox fan). Artest is a solid player. Tenacious, evil defender. I'd put him at the 3. Hell, EG is currently our only D.

The Bulls might trade Ronnie in the offseason, as he is making similar rumblings about leaving as Brand did (the reason Brand was traded). But it would probably not be until the off-season (if it involved trading a pick).

 

With the trade, Chicago gets rid of a sf so that Eddie Robinson can start. We get the center that we need plus a sf that we also need. Chicago gets an ending contract and a small contract that they can afford to cut. They also get a first round pick probably a good one too. Hey, they traded their franchise player for a pick, why can't they do it again?

 

Why would we give up a top 5pick for Artest and Miller????

 

What are you guys smoking? A good to possibly great lottery pick for those 2? And then to throw in the 1st rounder they possibly still owe us on top of that? Yeah, they traded Brand last year,but they don't have another Brand and I doubt they'd trade one of their high schoolers. I'd rather take a chance with the ping pong balls than do the deal in this post.

Do we send Cato to the bench to sulk, in order to start Miller or does Miller get all those rebounds from the bench? I'd rather have Miller but let's get rid of Cato before we bring in another average center. We don't need two of them at the same time sucking up cap space. Barring a genius deal,signing, or luck in landing a good center, I'd rather have just one of those type of guys plus Griff at the 5.

 

hottoddie-I did know about the back-to-back picks rule.

From my understanding, we can not trade our own pick until we are mathematically eliminated, or Toronto is mathematically in the playoffs. Odds of that happening in February are slim.

We can however, trade the Toronto pick.

As for this trade, make it the Toronto pick, and I like it. Our pick is simply looking to good (bad) to trade it for some average players that aren't going to put us over the top. Remember, Chicago owes us a first or 2 2nds from the Drew deal, and those are very appealing to them.

BTW, we can always trade the rights to a player after we draft him.

 

There is no way we should throw away our #1 pick when there are so many possibilities: Ming Yao would be a great fit for the Rockets if we drew #1 or possibly #2. If we slipped down to #3 through #7, we would have a chance at Amare Stoudemire. From #8 to #12 we might have a shot at Chris Marcus -- big men with promise.

Keep the number #1 and, when we know what team has the #15 pick, trade Toronto's #1 and an appropriate bench guy for it. Then ship the pick to the Grizz, and we're in good shape.

 

Are you out of your f****n mind?????? Forget Miller for a second ....Artest??? He would not only start on most NBA teams...he would excel. This guy might be one of the most underrated players in the league.

And for Miller, have you seen the centers in the NBA these days? Miller might not be a stud to build a team around but I can tell you this...he would start on plenty of teams...INCLUDING ours!

That being said...I watched the Bulls-Heat game last night (until the Rocket game started) and the announcers were saying that because Eddie Robinson is healthy and signed to a huge contract, Artest and management want to part ways since they (artest and E Rob)play the same position. I think Krause would jump at the chance to add a lottery pick (unfortunately Hottoddie's post makes it impossible to trade this years pick) and dump a guy(artest)who DEFINITELY will not sign with Chicago when his contract is up.

 

I sincerely can't beleive arguments are going both ways here. I guarantee there's no way Chicago would even discuss this trade. Chicago aren't looking for anymore capspace, at all, and no more young players, EXCEPT for Jason Williams. With Chandler and Curry, Ming is a player they don't need, but they can pick him up, package him with Mercer and get a TOP 2nd tier player.


Guys, you have to know that there's NO guarantee of a draft pick excelling in the NBA. It's LESS that 50-50.

Honestly, I can't find 10 better deals for those 2 players. Should I do it right on the spot?


Jonathan Bender or Al Harrington and Travis Best for Miller and Artest.


Darius Miles and Olowokandi for Miller and Artest.

Antonio Mcdyess for Miller and Artest.

Sprewell for Miller and Artest? (maybe a draft pick needed)

A deal with the Blazers, but it's tough to do because the Blazers have controversial trade value.

Rashard Lewis and John Barry for Artest and Miller?



I admit I kinda paused after that one.....If you don't agree with those, future considerations can balance any of those.


I'll show you at best what we're giving them:


Top 5 pick (at best): They have one, why would they need ours? They have enough youth, and I'm sure Cartwright doesn't want anymore projects.

Walt Williams: 3-pt shooting, cap space. How can I put this. They have no need for him. they are NOT looking to clear cap space, and whatever he gives during the 40 or so games he plays would be insignificant to the outcome of the season.

Dan Langhi: To them, Dan Langhi is just a throw in, and is worth nothing in trade value. This may not be equivalent to the views of some people on this board, but to the rest of the GM's in the league, it is. At best, he can be the BACKUP backup SF behind Walt and Robinson. He's doing that perfectly fine over here.




What we're getting?

At worst

Brad Miller: Isn't a big scorer, probably won't get many shots on our team. Is a TINY bit slow. But he goes to the line as often as Antwan jamison. Almost 6 times a game. He's capable of getting more than 10 on any given night. he's also a viable option on offense if the opposing team is weak inside. he provides tough, hustle defense.


Artest: The only thing to be worried about, is his attitude. But with a coach like Rudy, I doubt that will ever be a problem. Clearly, his biggest asset is defense. This guys is one of the BEST perimiter defenders in the league. Just ask MJ or Kobe. The knock on him before this season was his offense. Apparently, he's worked on that during his time on the IR and has become at least average on offense, and if he doesn't score, he rebounds, blocks, and steals. He's gonna hustle like hell for you, and he's barely ever useless on the court.




What would Chicago look like after this trade?


Curry
Chandler/Fizer
Robinson
Mercer
Crawford



They might wanna get Jason Williams, but they already have a point and won't destroy their team when they have someone who may have as big an impact as Jason Williams. Crawford has never played regualrly, so he might as well be a rookie.




The deal just favours us too much. It's not something we'd consider mentioning to the Bulls, so that we don't come out humiliated.