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Larry Smith = Coach killer???

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by harumph, May 25, 2003.

  1. harumph

    harumph Member

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    Is it just me or does it seem that the piss-poor effort at coaching by "Mr Mean" cost Rudy his job? The team noticably regressed during his tenure as HC (head coach or head case?;)), he made shocking player/playing time rotations and bad play decisions/game plan. While we only missed the playoffs by 1 game, i believe we could've challanged for the 7th seed if Rudy was coaching - or if LS coached w his brain instead of his....

    In the process of the rotations, he also cost Yao the ROY award. I wonder if Rudy still would've been fired if Yao did win it? It would've at least been 1 positive on the crappy season that was... and something Les could use to earn more $$$
     
  2. OUTITAN

    OUTITAN Member

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    not an a bad observation that...
     
  3. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    What were Steve Francis' stats during those crucial last few games? I guess it's Larry Smith's fault when he is shooting 2 for 15.

    Larry Smith should be our next coach.
     
  4. user

    user Member

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    Smith raised moochie's confident.

    Everybody beside Nachbar earned equal play time under Smith. If a coach can even make the bench players play like starters, what more can you ask for?

    Larry the Legend! Smith.
     
  5. Texas Stoke

    Texas Stoke Member

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    Larry Smith didn't cause Francis too shoot 39% the second half of the season..

    what about Francis, Mobley, and Moochie, three vets for this team that Rudy seemed to trust and count on and expected to really come through for him this season but instead regressed in what seemed like all areas of their games.. These guys were Rudys vets in the rebuilding process and they performed badly too many nights, made too many costly rookie like mistakes during close games, and that had everything to do with them being 3-9 in games decided by 3 points or less - theres the playoffs.. theres Rudys job. The Moochie signing really had to make the well- beloved Rudy look bad, if that was possible. after holding out and signing that large contract, once the season began, he basically turned in his uniform - DID NOT EVEN SHOW UP FOR RUDY ONCE DURING THE SEASON - again, we were 3-9 in games decided by 3 points or less, we could of used every bit of effort from that little ****. If he cared about producing for his coach as much as he did for his afro sheen.. the 15, 20 or so minutes he played would of made a huge difference in those close games. Some of these guys took of advantage of Rudys easy going ways and did not execute his gameplan because they were busy clowning around, whistling dixie, and who knows what else. kinda upsets me, cause now he's gone.
     
  6. leebigez

    leebigez Member

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    Pretty much what I said also. The young veterans didn't hold up like Rudy thought they would. Rudy during histenure with Hakeem,Clyde and even a young Cassell and Horry is trust them to feed the post, play defense and maintain proper court balance. This new group of young veterans are too busy getting publicist, making video and club cameos and own personal agendas. With the exception of a couple of players, this team doesn't have a clue about basic fundemental hoops. Larry Smith really didn't do anything more than what Rudy had them doing the entire yr. Its easy to lay blame at smith, but don't shoot the messager.
     
  7. Panda

    Panda Member

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    Maybe. Larry sucked and we could've made the palyoffs without him distracting the players, but ultimately Rudy is responsible for selecting his assistants. So it goes back to haunt him.
     
  8. codell

    codell Member

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    Steve and Yao shooting 7-33 against Port = Coach killer
    Steve and Yao shooting 5-23 against Utah = Coach killer
    Lack of team hustle on D against Seattle = Coach killer
    21 TOs against Milwaukee = Coach killer

    These are the games which I felt we should have won. The two loss against Seattle, I agree (somewhat), can be attributed to coaching (i.e. not having the team ready to play). The other three loses were clearly lack of fundamental execution on the player's part. The rest of the loses during the Smith tenure were against teams that were clearly much better than we were and who we had little chance of beating unless we were at the top of our game:

    @ Portland
    @ Sacramento
    @ L.A. Lakers
    @ New Jersey
     
  9. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Member

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    I think it had more to do with the fact that the Rockets lost to all 4 last place teams this year. I could post how many games we lost to really bad teams this year, but I'm too lazy.

    If we would have taken care of business by beating teams we were supposed to beat, we would have been a playoff team and probably higher than the 8th seed.
     
  10. Yetti

    Yetti Member

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    Larry Smith[Trainee Coach] caused problems with too many players. Just go back and look at the tapes- Francis and Yao Ming both were effected by his coaching[or lack of]. He made no effort to consider that Yao Ming had a strong chance for ROY. In fact he prevented Yao Ming of having that chance. Sorry but Larry Smith was a bust and I hope he isnt on the bench next season. Till Rudy became unable to coach we still could have made the playoffs, but not under Larry Smith.
     
  11. u851662

    u851662 Member

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    BULL****! Larry did his job the Rockets did nothing different than they had been doing all year. Playing inconsistent basketball. With Rudy at full strength we had been in and out of the 8th seed for the second half of the season, so don't give me that, "we would have made the playoffs with Rudy," ****. I love the guy but call a freaking ace an ace. The team sucked all year long. Was their supposed to be anything different under Larry Smith. Do you think Larry had a chance to implement how he wanted the team to play ball? No, he had to basically go off of Rudy's structure. you cant change a team with 20 games left in the season to play how you as a interm coach want them to. And what are we in this for? Yao's individual acheivements? I can give a damn about some ROY award. It amazes me how, you give Rudy 4 years to build a winner, but Larry Smith gets 20 games to work a miracle on a team that was playing like a lottery team all season long. Sure we were teased with flashes of brillance, but thats all we were was teased. For 4 years we have been on the outside looking in at the playoffs. But you blame an assistant who was put in control for 20 games. It sounds like a double standard to me....
     
    #11 u851662, May 25, 2003
    Last edited: May 25, 2003
  12. OUTITAN

    OUTITAN Member

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    a little editorial note, you might want to relocate your deleted explatives in the future. They are much more dramatic when they fit into the flow of the sentance.

    Example:
    Good: I want a ******* hot dog!
    Bad: I want a hot ******* dog!

    So how about:
    ... so don't give me that, "we would have made the playoffs with Rudy," ****.

    Just a suggestion to strengthen your arguement. You are more or less correct by the way. Mr. Mean couldn't possibly bear all the blame because Rudy hired him and kept him around...

    (relax dog, i'm just injecting a little humor into the proceedings)
     
  13. u851662

    u851662 Member

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    Your right Outitan...
     
  14. codell

    codell Member

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    Jebus Christopher Yetti, just get off of the "Smith cost Yao the ROY" bandwagon. You know that is not true and I have called you out NUMEROUS time for saying this, and you have yet to show a willingness to debate the point with me.

    Under Larry Smith, Yao averaged almost 28 mins per game, which is just 1 min under his season average. Yao cost himself the ROY, not Larry. Larry didn't cause Yao to shoot 2-13 against Portland or 3-11 against Denver. He didn't do anything to make Yao grab only 2 rebounds in 33 minutes against New Jersey. Larry didn't cause Yao to average less than 1 block a game over a 7 game stretch. And Larry certainly didn't cause Yao to turn the ball over 7 times against Memphis.

    Yao was running on fumes at the end of the season. How is this Larry's fault?

    Yao was missing 2 feet layups on a consistant basis because he would try to lay it in instead of dunking it. I suppose Larry was telling him to do this?

    Yao couldn't keep his man pinned down in order to grab a board. I am quite sure that one of the most tenacious rebounders in NBA history taught him to do this.

    Just quit saying that "our coaches can't teach big men" or "our coaches coach nothing but street ball". Our coaches can teach big men. Has it ever occured to you maybe its taking players like Yao and EG a while to grasp what is tought to them?

    For once in your life, start holding Yao accountable for his own shotcomings every once in a while. He is not beyond reproach.

    Your head is so far up Yao's rear end that he is going to need a proctologist if he hopes to start the season on time.

    PS - I am not trying to be a "Larry apologist" here. However, some of the bashing of Mean has been quite unfair. Considering the guy stepped into a role he was not prepared for, he did his best. No one ever had a problem with Mean until he became an emergency coach. Quit making Smith the scapegoat for all of the player's deficiencies.
     
    #14 codell, May 25, 2003
    Last edited: May 25, 2003
  15. Fegwu

    Fegwu Member

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    Larry helped Rudy to 400 wins (or is it 500).

    But I still highly dislike. He is indeed the black hole.

    He contributed to RudyT's present predicament and subsequently his.
     
  16. hikanoo49

    hikanoo49 Member

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    Shouldn't Larry have prepared to coach a team??? Afterall, he was an assistant coach which means that if the head coach was not available, it was his job to lead the team. But ultimately, his performance triggered his demise. Reasons for his failure are highly debatable. Whether the reason is that he is not capable or as you eloquently stated, he may have simply "stepped into a role he was not prepared for".

    Either way, the fact remains that the team didn't perform under his leadership and their are others with finer track records to replace him.
     
  17. HAYJON02

    HAYJON02 Member

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    actually id tend to think that a coach would have as much of an impact as anybody on a players shooting percentage. i.e. what plays you run whether its a pick and roll or......isos. good plays are good plays because they tend to produce more points or easier shots for the player its designed for.
     
  18. rockHEAD

    rockHEAD Member

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    [conspiracy theory]

    i smell a conspiracy

    [/conspiracy theory]

    :rolleyes:
     
  19. user

    user Member

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    Smith did try to force Yao to play ISO and one on one. He did try to force Yao to play in a style that he is not used to. Everybody watched the games know that under smith, there were more ISO's than just before Rudy left. Yes, this team were an ISO team but Rudy was trying to change it, and his efforts started to show before smith took over.

    Our bench players does play more minutes under smith.

    I agree Yao need to change his playing style more or less in NBA. but in the last 20 games when the rockets were fighting for a playoff spot? We all know what happened, he FG% drop, drop, drop, Francis' FG% drop, drop, dropped. Moochie dribbled more, more and more.I am sorry, but Smith did changed a lot of rockets game plan after he took over. Everybody can see that.

    Yao sucked at ISO! He need to improve on that.

    I cannot believe anyone denied that Smith changed Rudy's game plan. The playtime distribution changed, the rotation changed, the amount of ISO changed and as a result, the winning % changed. How can you deny those changes?

    Any game plan could be changed but not when you were fighting for a playoff spot and you were on a 5 game winning strike.

    ROY meant nothing to Yao. I don't think he consider himself a real rookie. He might be a rookie in NBA, He may play like a rookie in NBA. But he was a starter in Chinese NT. He was way past for longing for a rookie award. All star means a lot to him but not ROY. But a playoff spot meant a lot to this team. The team had already missed 3 playoffs and has no first round pick this year.

    Well, whatever, it seems unlikely larry smith will be the head coach of this team the coming season.
     
  20. ragingFire

    ragingFire Contributing Member

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    Codell,
    I will debate the point that Larry cost Yao the ROY.

    1) Larry did not play Yao as many minutes. I posted the numbers before. You will do well figure out for yourself. Yao avg. 29 min the whole season but if you discount the first 9, 10 games (when Yao was not figured to be in the picture much less make an impact), I believe he avg. ~32 min. /game under Rudy. A 4 minute drop per game under Larry. If your player is competing for the ROY, should he get more rather than less minutes?

    2) Your quote Yao as not playing well at
    Denver (4/16) 3-11 FG, you forgot that he pulled down 16 boards.
    New Jersey (3/31) 2 rebs?. Did he not score 24 pts? You also forgot to mention the Nets was on the revenge for a blow out at Houston previously. Their whole team out-hustled and out- rebounded us 58-39. Yao was only 1 of the many who was a step slower that night.

    3) Yao did not play well in quite a few games at the end but he did well in some too. Larry pulled Yao out of these games and not allow him the chance to improve his avg.
    Seattle (4/12) 22 mins
    Orlando (4/6) 27 mins
    Denver (3/29) 15 mins
    ...

    4) Amare was given plenty of minutes even at garbage time to up his stats.
    Portland (4/15), GS (4/11), Dallas (4/9) ...

    5) The Rockets' defense disappeared toward the end of the season. The guards allowed their men to get to the basket time and time again. That forced Yao to play defense against somebody else's man and tired himself out even more. There was 1 game, in the first 11 minutes Yao had to challenge the shot every single play. I guarantee you, it was "every single play".

    Yao made plenty of mistakes but Larry certainly did very little to help. Are you suggesting to me that it's not Larry's job? Very well then ... we won't have to worry about that any more :)
     

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