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Lack of ball movement in the offense

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by haven, Mar 23, 2004.

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Why is our offense so unsophisticated?

  1. JVG either doesn't care or is incompetent about the O

    26 vote(s)
    26.0%
  2. Our backcourt can't run a decent O

    43 vote(s)
    43.0%
  3. One thing at a time: the focus is on the D this year. Gradual improvement is necessary.

    38 vote(s)
    38.0%
  4. We have the wrong personnel. JVG doesn't want to make the team learn a new O, which is usually a te

    11 vote(s)
    11.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. haven

    haven Member

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    Until about mid-February (or so), I thought I was seeing steady improvement in the offense. At the beginning of the year, you could see a greater effort to involve Yao in the offense. However, the rotation was terrible, the entry passes were bad, and Yao got outmuscled too much. Now, the rotation has improved, so we burn double teams more. Yao still loses position at times, but wins it a lot more than he once did.

    In addition, I think that we've improved from last year on the p-n-r and at getting open jumpers for guys like JJ and Mo T.

    However, the improvement seems to have ceased. It's almost like we have very set plays on which we can have good team movement. Pnr? Movement. When Yao's doubled? Movement. Francis's lobs to Cato? Movement.

    But they're all isolated. They're not fluid. Watching the Kings the other day demonstrated just how unsophisticated our offense really is. They'd put it in the post, kick it back out, keep passing, run cuts, and find the open man. I know that the Kings have one of the best O's in the league - but the constrast was truly startling and depressing.

    So... why? I figure there could be several reasons. If you have any other suggestions other than those in the poll... tell me about it.
     
  2. dharocks

    dharocks Member

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    A lot of that also has to do with the fact that we run an Eastern Conference style offense consisting of running set plays and post-up isolations... We really can't afford to play as loose as some of the league's top offenses, considering how turnover prone our guards and bigmen are. We did have some nice ball movement early against the Blazers (and finished with 30 assists in the game - to 17 turnovers, I might add). If the offense had better ball movement, you can believe that guys like Padgett and Piatkowski would be seeing more minutes.
     
  3. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    SF3 has a nose for the ball. His instinct as to where the ball will bounce leaves him out of position to run the break. Ditto for Cat, but to a lesser degree. That leaves only our small forward racing down the lanes -- with only himself to pass the ball.
     
  4. gucci888

    gucci888 Member

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    Its kinda hard to imagine that Steve Francis, Yao Ming, Cuttino Mobley, Jim Jackson, Maurice Taylor, have trouble scoring 80 points a game, but I see why they do.

    I hope JVG gets the offense back together this offseason. The D is there, which opens up our offense occasionally, but JVGs defense only doesn't work in the West (look at the record). Maybe JVG should let these guys "play" a little more, our offense seems too mechanical and predictable.

    I think we're like 11-1 when we score more than 100ppg. :)
     
  5. SageHare6

    SageHare6 Member

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    It's a Tradeoff IMO.

    On one hand, it's true that our offense is fairly mechanical, but half-court sets and a slower tempo is what playoff basketball is all about. And quite frankly, I'm not convinced that we could outgun the best teams in the West, even if we tried. We neither have the firepower nor the passing nor the open court skills. Our best bet is to get more efficient with the sets that we do have.

    Now as to why our offense slows down, the reason is simple - it's Yao. To give him the ball, read the D, and give him time to work makes for a lot of "watching" by the other players. Since Yao is so big, it's not easy sending cutters to the hoop unless the team REALLY gets its spacing and angles down. Even cutters going baseline can get TOO deep if Yao is posting too low. And even here, it's probably a better FGA just to let Yao do his thing. In this sense, there is finite space and trade offs that must be made in balancing a post game with Yao vs. a motion offense that features guard play.

    The one thing that the Rox can do better in short time, IMO is making that extra pass around by swinging the ball one more man over. When defenses are scrambling after collapsing on Yao, we get a decent look with the first pass out, but an even better look with the second man. However, all too often, either the pass is poor (near the feet/legs or too high) or the receiver hesitates to do something. Both costs us time and gives defenses time to reset.

    :D

    theSAGE
     
  6. GATER

    GATER Member

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    Ever consider that it's not Van Gundy's offense but the passers and decision makers using it? For example...

    * Instead of basketball, let's have a track meet between the Kings' rotation and the Rockets' rotation. Do you think the Kings are so much faster afoot than the Rockets that they'd take all of the sprints? But yet, they get many more fastbreak points with average team speed. Ask yourself why. (Hint: Passing decisions).

    * Imagine Steve Francis (as a King) yo-yoing the ball as Miller, Vlade, or Webber (or Peja or Christie) gets position in the low blocks. Kings' basketball is not built on cross-overs or 1 on 1 moves and very little drive and kick. This has been a mental staple of Cuttino and Steve since they arrived.

    * During Rudy T's last season, I started to count the numbers of times a different player touched the ball in a half court set. If we got to three, it was a rare occassion. The Rockets probably now average 3 players and often 5. In the stretches where the Rockets offense is struggling, you will observe that the number of players touching the ball falls back into the RT range. That's not JVG's offense...that user error. :)
     
  7. HeyDude

    HeyDude Member

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    I still think our main problem on offense in <b>not </b> our ball movement, but fast breaks. Every offense struggles during games, no matter how efficient they are. It might be bad outside shooting, bad day for the big men, or just inconsistant passing. But the way many through is by getting easy points on the break. This is what seprates us from the best in the West. Even slow offenses like SA run a decent break. I still dont think we can compete in the playoffs unless we get some easy points. Every time we win a big game, its because we shot close to 50%. That doesnt happen always, its damn hard. I wanna see us win against good teams when we shoot less than 45%. That would mean we played D and got easy points when it mattered. :cool:
     
  8. HeyDude

    HeyDude Member

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    I actually blame the fast break on JVG besides the obvious SF. Ture, Steve does suck at this. However, he also sucked at D before this year. Well, how in the world can we be top at D but still suck at other areas?

    The answer might be lack of practice of these things. Sure I see JVG yelling for the Rockets to push the ball. But if you hear quotes from players, they say the Rockets spend over 60% of time practicing defense. I think this might take some time away from other extremely important areas of offense. I see ball movement there, much better than last year. Defense is better. Yao gets the ball more. But the fast breaks are down <b>even more </b>. Practice makes perfect. Steve and Co. can be taught, just like they are taught and baught into this Defense thing. Thats all they talk about. I love their D, but w/o a decent break to result from others putting up bricks all over the place, its not gonna help our offense. All playoff teams need this. It is essential. The team of 95 would <b>NOT </b> have won w/o Drexler running a decent break w/ Elie and Cassel, even as dominating as Hakeem the Dream was.:cool:
     
  9. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    It's simple. JVG needs to hire an offensive coordinator.
     
  10. ayears

    ayears Member

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    It's the key that passing the ball in a simple&clever ways. You need ang must carry out your O tactics in movement, NOT one player try to one-on-one, with other 4 teammates stand still:mad:
     
  11. ayears

    ayears Member

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    missed point: haven, this thread is valuable to discuss one month later. Good topic:D
     
  12. Toast

    Toast Member

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    Why do you need a "sophisticated" offense?

    Remember when our offense was "dump it down to Dream?"

    The perimeter guys got good spacing. He either took the shot or bounced it out & we worked it around to the open man. It's not like there was even a left side/right side to it; Dream always posted on the left.

    Our offense now is much more "sophisticated" than that. High pick & roll. High screen. Low post. Iso. We have many more ways to get the ball in the basket than years past.
     
  13. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    I just wish we could get the ball "in" the basket more often.;)
     

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