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Kyrie Irving traded for Isaiah Thomas

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by alexcapone, Aug 22, 2017.

  1. Tenchi

    Tenchi Contributing Member

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    Not if they get Ryno in a NYK HOU BKN trade... [​IMG]
     
    BigMaloe and Easy like this.
  2. Vivi

    Vivi Member

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    Well, Indiana lost George and Teague (which is a very overrated player anyway imo), but the Nets lost Lopez...also, Indiana still has Turner which is better than any player the Nets have, and they have also proven players like Collison, Thad Young, Joseph, Bogdanovic and Oladipo...i mean, i don't like Oladipo that much, especially with that contract, but he's still a decent player, certainly better than every player the Nets will play unless Russell or LeVert have a breakout year. I just don't see how this starting 5:

    Turner
    Young
    Robinson
    Oladipo
    Collison

    can be worse than:

    Mozgov
    Jefferson
    Crabbe
    Russell
    Lin
     
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  3. OTMax

    OTMax Member

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    I will say this: Ainge lost this trade and the Cavs GM won this thing by a large margin if you look at flexibility, cap situation, salaries and getting that 1st round pick considering the Cavs need to make this deal. On paper, Ainge lost big time. There was way more urgency you would think for the Cavs than for Boston. Of course publicly they said they can fix things come training camp, but that was just PR garbage. We all know Kyrie was gone as soon as that report came out. My guess is Ainge got desperate, called Cleveland and said he was willing to include the pick.
     
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  4. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    dont see it that way. think both sides got what they wanted in the end.
     
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  5. ghettocheeze

    ghettocheeze Member

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    I think Ainge made the smart move. Thomas overachieved last season in the Celtics system. Now watch him struggle next to LeBron who has a death grip on ball control and running the offense.

    Everything negative about Kyrie's game; non-playmaking, poor defense are also present in Thomas, but now in a 5' 9" package. Thomas is in a contract year and made rumblings about seeking the max. Ainge decided to let some other GM have the misfortune to make that call.

    As for the Cavs, the Brooklyn pick might be the only positive here, but then again they might trade it for another star player like Marc Gasol. Now, if LeBron bails next summer, then Cavs are the biggest losers. A maxed out Thomas is not the future, neither is a broken Love, nor an aging Gasol.

    Basically, the Cavs gave up their franchise player, a former 1st overall, who's only 25 years old and a proven commodity for a chance to build a one year contender that still won't beat the Warriors.
     
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  6. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
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    LeBron is going to hate playing with Thomas more than he did with Irving.
     
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  7. Raz

    Raz Member

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    You said it yourself. The Nets don't tank and come march at latest, the Pacers will keep their best players out and hope for teams like Brooklyn to leapfrog them. Even if not, there are enough other candidates to keep the Nets away from a top 5 pick.
     
  8. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    looks like Irving was the one who got tired of playing with Lebron though ;)
     
  9. LabMouse

    LabMouse Member

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    They gave up their player because he was asked to be traded. Do you see what the Pacers got from PG? The Boston did not need include the net pick, but who knows, maybe Boston does not think IT is not good.

     
  10. Obito

    Obito Contributing Member

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    I know IT went to a better team (arguably) but it really seemed like he loved Boston & the situation he was in. The more I think about this, the more I think the Celtics kind of played him. The guy had an MVP caliber season only to get traded.
     
  11. LabMouse

    LabMouse Member

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    Harden would got tired of playing with Lebron soon if they play in the same team.

     
  12. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    This confuses me. You think IT benefited from the Celtics system more than he'll benefit playing next to Lebron?? It's not just about the stats. IT was a dominant offensive player last year effectively as the only go-to offensive creator on the Celtics.

    Will Lebron have the ball a lot? Sure. Just as he did last year with Kyrie, where nonetheless Kyrie shot more shots and had plenty of ISO opportunity.

    LAST YEAR, IT was better at doing what Kyrie does, than Kyrie was. That's just factual.

    Perhaps that was peak IT and a never to be repeated IT... who knows.

    You're absolutely right... but seems like, like everyone else, you're just making IT a worse player because he's 5'9. Who cares? He was 5'9 last year and was better. Everything negative was the same, everything positive IT was better.

    The only question is whether 5'9 IT can repeat what he did last year.

    Being in a contract year is a good thing for the Cavs... as it makes it more likely IT repeats last year, which is exactly what Cavs need to make 1 last run at a championship.

    Who cares about next offseason, when Kyrie was out the door anyway? The only question next offseason will be could Kyrie next offseason, with 1 year left on his contract, and 1 foot out the door, have gotten more than Crowder and the Nets pick? Based on Jimmy Butler and Paul George trades my guess is no... but where the Nets pick ends up plays a big role in that.

    The positive here is the Cavs are still EC favorites, are probably better equipped to challenge GSW (though still not enough) AND have FLEXIBILITY next offseason AND have a high lotto pick next offseason.

    Lebron may bail next summer... like he might have bailed next summer anyway. The Cavs can decide whether they want to pay IT or not at that point. If not, and Lebron bails, they have a ton of cap space and a high lotto pick and are 1 or 2 steps ahead on a rebuild already.

    I don't know why you are talking about Gasol, lol. They haven't trade for Gasol and are unlikely to do so.

    Did you miss the memo where they were basically forced to give up their franchise player, lol??

    How many years do you think Kyrie has left on his deal, lol?? He's got 2 years left. He's on his way OUT, voluntarily.
    The Cavs were in the position they were in.
    Value for Kyrie wasn't going to slowly increase.
    Plus the Cavs locker room was f'd if they started training camp with Kyrie.

    Are you arguing they should have instead taken Eric Bledsoe and a Suns pick? IT was better, healthier AND this being his last year of his contract is a GOOD thing for the Cavs.

    Also, your whole post completely ignores Jae Crowder. A tough bulldog wing defender, a 40% three point shooter, a guy who plays 30+mpg, 14 ppg scorer, 6 rpg, couple assists, a steal. take a look at game logs and look at how the "rest" of the Cavs performed in the playoffs. They were AWFUL. The bench was AWFUL. The Cavs needed DEPTH in the worst way.

    They still shouldn't beat the Warriors, but relative to what they were FORCED to do, they've come out looking very very good.
     
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  13. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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  14. Rox11

    Rox11 Member

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    What you guys think about the idea of Ainge drafting Fultz and then trading IT for Hayward or Butler (butler more likely because of contract)? He would still have the pick possibly?

    Or is that too simple?
     
  15. hoopster325

    hoopster325 Member

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    If I'm the Cavs GM, I'd demand Lebron give an answer, is he going to commit to Cleveland or leave after this year? Don't let Lebron dictate the situation, as of right now Cleveland has all the control to determine its future.

    They shouldn't trade for anything that's a move towards a championship without a guarantee from Lebron publicly that he will play one more year after this year, make it about Lebron's image and he will capitulate (because all Lebron cares about is his image).

    If he says he is going to decide at the end of the year, I'd force his hand and tell him "alright, if that's the case we're operating under the assumption you're leaving" and then the Cavs should just start shopping Thomas, Crowder & Love.

    So either Cleveland demands Lebron gives them an answer, or tell him we're going to blow this thing up for your last year in Cleveland. See how much fun Lebron has when Cleveland expedites the rebuilding process and he's playing alongside guys like Dragan Bender and Reggie Jackson or whoever they get back in a trade.

    If you did 3 trades with Love, Thomas and Crowder, attaching one or two contracts of Thompson, JR Smith and Shumpert to any deals, the Cavs could pretty much clear a ton of cap space (depending on the salaries they get back in return) and get back either young talent or draft picks.

    Force Lebron's hand in a direction to a decision, or be left to look like a sucker once again. The Cavs don't owe Lebron anything for the title, despite him feeling like they owe him everything. This is still the guy who hung Cleveland out to dry once before and will do it again.
     
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  16. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    I totally disagree with you.

    I'm one of the minority that believes giving IT a max contract would be a huge mistake. The Celts get a younger, much more talented, championship-proven player in Kyrie with 2 years remaining on his contract instead of one. AND they escape the all-or-nothing decision next summer with IT. Giving up the 2018 pick was a sacrifice but I doubt very much the Nets will finish with the worst record in the league again.

    IMO, the main argument against Ainge is he should have been able to negotiate a better deal because the Cavs had no leverage. Maybe so, but that doesn't mean the trade doesn't help them this season and long term. I need to think about this coming season, but going forward, the Celts should be the dominant EC team for several years regardless of whether LeBron leaves or stays in Cleveland.

    Obviously the Cavs made out very well but their late game perimeter defense will be even worse with IT on the floor, unless Lue pulls him in key situations like Brad Stevens did. The Cavs may have the worst perimeter defense in the NBA next season.
     
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  17. Rox11

    Rox11 Member

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    Lol they tried to ask gsw for a kyrie-klay swap
     
  18. ghettocheeze

    ghettocheeze Member

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    Look we may agree to disagree, but I think Kyrie is on his way to a breakout season and possibly entering the top echelon of NBA players. The same cannot be said about Thomas and that's why Ainge was not willing to give him the max.

    The other part about being FORCED is all crap. Cleveland was already trying to trade Kyrie on draft night long before he demanded a trade.

    Come back to me next year when LeBron bails on the Cavs and they are FORCED to give Thomas the super max.
     
  19. hoopster325

    hoopster325 Member

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    You're absolutely right, Indiana is not that bad, they lack a star but have real NBA players.

    The thing is, active NBA players on the team don't care about the Indiana Pacers intention to tank. What does it do for Victor Oladipo to not go 100% every game to try and score more, and make a bigger name for himself? The situation the Pacers are in now just presents a chance for one player to shine with a lack of a star, someone has to have the ball in their hands and take the shots.

    You have to totally deplete your roster to NBA D-League levels to successfully tank, the way the 76ers did.

    The Pacers actually may still make the playoffs. It looks like Cle, Was, Bos, Tor, Mil, Cha & Mia will all make the playoffs. The 8th seed is anyones guess, the Knicks maybe?

    Why can't the Pacers get the 8th seed? Seems strange people think they'll be the worst team in the East. Oladipo, Turner, Bognadovic, Thad Young, Cory Joseph, Robinson, Collison, TJ Leaf, Sabonis, Al Jefferson. Its not a great team but who else even has remotely the talent to get to the 8th seed?

    I think the 76ers if the young guys step up could be interesting, but we'll see they're a question mark now. Knicks are a question mark until Melo situation is sorted. Magic stink, Detroit is really not that great, Hawks are dreadful, Chicago is awful, Nets are awful. Why are the Pacers considered worse than any of them?

    If anyone is the bottom of the East other than Brooklyn, it would be the Hawks. Their starting 5 as of now is Schroeder, Bazemore, Prince, John Collins & Dedmon. Their bench is full of players barely roster worthy in the league. Anyone thinking the Pacers are worse than the Hawks are crazy.
     
  20. OTMax

    OTMax Member

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    Ow I agree, giving IT the max is a pain that Ainge avoided, which is on paper the one thing he did positively. I wasn't talking about the players themselves ;) Exactly! He should've gotten a better deal so that's why he said he lost the deal. Think about this: they gave a rival a great player and the flexibility to let him walk next season while still possibly being better this season as well since on paper they gave up 2 rotation players, 1 of which an All-Star for an All-Star. Cleveland remains a threat for now.
     

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