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Kurds flee homes as Iran shells Iraq's northern frontier

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by tigermission1, Aug 17, 2006.

  1. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    A potentially explosive situation developing here. It has to be quiet problematic for the US that Turkey -- a NATO ally -- and Iran are working together here, two countries that normally have very little in common...

    Kurds flee homes as Iran shells Iraq's northern frontier

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,1852843,00.html

    Turkey and Iran have dispatched tanks, artillery and thousands of troops to their frontiers with Iraq during the past few weeks in what appears to be a coordinated effort to disrupt the activities of Kurdish rebel bases.
    Scores of Kurds have fled their homes in the northern frontier region after four days of shelling by the Iranian army. Local officials said Turkey had also fired a number of shells into Iraqi territory.

    Some displaced families have pitched tents in the valleys behind Qandil Mountain, which straddles Iraq's rugged borders with Turkey and Iran. They told the Guardian yesterday that at least six villages had been abandoned and one person had died following a sustained artillery barrage by Iranian forces that appeared designed to flush out guerrillas linked to the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK), who have hideouts in Iraq.

    Although fighting between Turkish security forces and PKK militants is nowhere near the scale of the 1980s and 90s - which accounted for the loss of more than 30,000 mostly Turkish Kurdish lives- at least 15 Turkish police officers have died in clashes. The PKK's sister party in Iran, the Kurdistan Free Life Party (Pejak), has stepped up activities against security targets in Kurdish regions. Yesterday, Kurdish media said eight Iranian troops were killed.

    Rostam Judi, a PKK leader, claimed yesterday that no operations against Turkey or Iran were being launched from Iraqi territory. "We have fighters across south-eastern Turkey. Our presence in Iraq is purely for political work."

    Frustrated by the reluctance of the US and the government in Baghdad to crack down on the PKK bases inside Iraq, Turkish generals have hinted they are considering a large-scale military operation across the border. They are said to be sharing intelligence about Kurdish rebel movements with their Iranian counterparts.

    "We would not hesitate to take every kind of measures when our security is at stake," Abdullah Gul, the Turkish foreign minister, said last week.

    There has been sporadic shelling of the region since May but officials worry that concerted military action against PKK bases in Iraq could alienate Iraqi Kurds and destabilise their self-rule region, one of few post-invasion success stories. Some analysts say Ankara and Tehran may be trying to pressure Iraq's Kurds, afraid that their de facto independent region would encourage their own Kurdish population.

    Khaled Salih, the spokesman for the Kurdistan Regional Government in Irbil, said: "We condemn the shelling and urge the Iraqi government to demand the neighbours to respect our sovereignty."

    Despite its support base in Turkey's impoverished south-east, the PKK is regarded by Ankara, Washington and the EU as a terrorist organisation. Mr Judi said the PKK was seeking a peaceful and democratic solution to the Kurdish issue in Turkey, and would welcome mediation from the US or Iraq's Kurdish leaders.

    Last week, the Iraqi government said it had closed offices run by PKK sympathisers in Baghdad, and another office was shut by Kurdish authorities in Irbil.

    The US is also to appoint a special envoy to find a solution to the PKK problem, but that may not be enough. Ilnur Chevik, editor of the New Anatolian newspaper in Ankara, said: "There is huge public pressure on the Turkish government to take action." But he doubted whether Turkish forces would mount a full-scale invasion."The build-up of troops is designed to say to the Americans and the Iraqis, the ball is in your court." Tehran was also taking advantage of the situation, he said, "to show Turkey that it was taking action against its shared enemy, while the US, Turkey's ally, has done nothing".

    Meanwhile those displaced wonder when they can resume a normal life. "We know that the PKK are around here," said Abdul-Latif Mohammed, who fled the village of Lowan with his family. "But they live in the mountains. So these bombs just hurt us poor farmers."
     
  2. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    I just finished reading this story.

    What a clusterfuk...

    That whole region is about to explode.
     
  3. Like A Breath

    Like A Breath Member

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    Wait...trouble in the Middle East? What the hell?
     
  4. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    This topic had completely slipped off the public radar. The Kurds better get their act together and crack down on the PKK because if the U.S. ever pulls out of Iraq, they have no allies at all. In fact, a U.S. pullout would give the Turks a green light to move in and cremate the PKK. But there are some who believe the U.S. will always have a military presence in Kurdish Iraq no matter what happens.
     
  5. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    I am an ally of the PKK.
     
  6. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    I am supportive of the idea of a Kurdish homeland. However, how do you think that can come about? Where would it be established? Is Syria, Iraq, Iran, or Turkey willing to part away with some of their land to make that come about? Or would Kurds be satisfied with living as part of an existing state as long as they are granted some autonomy over their own affairs (for example: establishing their own schools, teaching in their language, running most of their own affairs)?

    I am trying to gain some understanding of the aspirations of the Kurdish people.
     
  7. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Who *doesn't Deserve* a homeland?

    Rocket River
     
  8. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    American Indians. :p
     
  9. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Look at my post in the "Last Throes" thread. I just posted about exactly that subject.



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  10. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Good point, and I understand that it would set a problematic precedent, some would say what would keep other ethnic minorities the world over from seeking an independent state and causing trouble to do it. Indeed, it would defeat the very idea of the modern secular state, which is supposed to be 'inclusive'. It would be disastrous if the Copts in Egypt wanted their own state, or the Lebanese Christian/Druze minority, or the Native Americans, or the White South Africans, and the list goes on and on...

    Ideally, the Kurds would be granted their rights and treated well by those states, but that hasn't been the case. They have been an oppressed minority for centuries, with endless attempts to force them to assimilate, which has only served to alienate them even further from those host countries.
     
  11. rodrick_98

    rodrick_98 Member

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    what is the PKK and PEJAK? the article says they're political parites but they are a militant group? i need more info on them before i can make a desicion... for once
     
  12. blazer_ben

    blazer_ben Rookie

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    I'm sorry, but those Kurds deserve it. they want to take Iran's land and name it kurdistan. anyone who wants to tearup iran's lands will and should be putdown by extrem force if need be. i dont wanna sound heartless, but iran belongs to all iranian ad not just kurds.
     
  13. michecon

    michecon Member

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    Wait, you mean Iraq under US occupation is a harbor of terrorist group? :confused: :rolleyes:
     
  14. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    I am merely empathizing with their plight, but I understand that it's a very complicated issue that won't get resolved easily.

    Probably the most realistic option is to grant them some sort of autonomy over their own affairs, but not too much autonomy to the point that they become a de facto state.

    Regardless, I hope things calm down a bit. The region -- certainly Iraq -- does not need another conflict breaking out.
     
  15. VooDooPope

    VooDooPope Love > Hate

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    We all see black and white
    When it comes to someone else's fight
    No one ever gets involved
    Apathy can never solve

    Forced out - Brave and Mighty
    Stolen land - They can't fight it
    Hold on - To pride and tradition
    Even though they know how much
    their lives are really missin'
    We're dissin them...

    On reservations
    A hopeless situation
    Respect is something that you earn
    Our indian brothers' getting burned
    Original American
    Turned into second class citizen

    Forced out - Brave and Mighty
    Stolen land - They can't fight it
    Hold on - To pride and tradition
    Even though they know how much
    their lives are really missin'
    We're dissin them...

    On reservations
    A hopeless situation

    Cry for the Indians
    Die for the Indians
    Cry for the Indians
    Cry, Cry, Cry for the Indians

    Love the land and fellow man
    Peace is what we strive to have
    Some folks have none of this
    Hatred and Prejudice

    Forced out - Brave and Mighty
    Stolen land - They can't fight it
    Hold on - To pride and tradition
    Even though they know how much
    their lives are really missin'
    We're dissin them...

    On reservations
    A hopeless situation
    Cry for the Indians
    Die for the Indians
    Cry for the Indians
    Cry, Cry, Cry for the Indians

    WARDANCE!!!

    Territory, It's just the body of the nation
    The people that inhabit it
    make it's configuration
    Prejudice, Something we all can do without
    Cause a flag of many colors is what
    this land is all about!!!!

    Forced out - Brave and Mighty
    Stolen land - They can't fight it
    Hold on - To pride and tradition
    Even though they know how much
    their lives are really missin'
    We're dissin them...

    On reservations
    A hopeless situation
    Cry for the Indians
    Die for the Indians
    Cry for the Indians
    Cry, Cry, Cry for the Indians
     
  16. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    tigermission1, you said you were trying to gain some understanding of the aspirations of the Kurdish people. You understand just about as much as I do.

    The problem is just as blazer_ben states it. blazer_ben doesn't seem to represent a hard line view at all. His is typical of most Iranians. The Iraqis and Syrians take a similar view. I believe Turks have the hardest feelings about Kurds. There is so much emotion against the Kurds and within the Kurds themselves I don't see a good solution for them. They will never get the autonomy and respect they want, EVER. Some would argue that their incursions into Iran and Turkey prove giving them even some of what they ask for will just make them agitate for more and make things worse for everyone.

    blazen_ben, in the context of things, you don't sound heartless to me.

    Azadre, please define "ally of the PKK".
     
  17. blazer_ben

    blazer_ben Rookie

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    They do not want a Semi- autonomy, they want a a different state all together. this has been going on for 70 years now. Iran must defend her soil by all means if possible. you now see how all iranians Unite when there countries security at stake. i
     
  18. blazer_ben

    blazer_ben Rookie

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    Thank you for Understanding. when iran's soil is under question, she must defend herself with all the means at her disposal.
     
  19. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    It means I have a treaty to defend them. Azadria has the most advanced military in the Southern Hemisphere and will defend the PKK until the end.
     
  20. blazer_ben

    blazer_ben Rookie

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    I highly doubt the shelling of the kurds will have a chain reaction effect by drawing the US into the conflict. the united state as it stands, does not want a conflict with iran. PKK is a Terrorist group that needs to be dealt with at the same manner as Americas war on terror. this is Iran's war on terror.
     

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