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KPJ: Can someone explain to me why he has become Clutchfans favorite whipping boy?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DasouthDakota, Oct 25, 2022.

  1. DaDakota

    DaDakota Fire Silas
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    True, we just need patience for development...and a new coach to accelerate that growth.

    DD
     
  2. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Again, if you think it's just the stats that make Curry and KPJ different, you aren't watching the game.

    Curry initiates the offense quickly. The reason he doesn't have a ton of assists isn't because he's a scorer, it's because he passes to facilitate versus just to get an asset. He understands how the defense is reacting and whom to get the ball to. Most of his scoring doesn't come from him initiating the offense, but rather him passing the ball and then the ball coming back to him with the defense scrambling and then he dribbles to his spots to score.

    KPJ on the other hand uses up a lot of the clock as he looks to create either a shot for himself, or if the defense reacts to him, make a pass out for an assist. If he doesn't have either of those options he either picks up his dribble or forces up a bad shot. Or he wastes the shot clock and forces up a shot.

    That's the difference.
     
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Fire Silas
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    No **** sherlock!

    I mean come on.....my point is an exaggerated one that says, if KPJ just increased his TS% people would be fine with all the other stuff....and they don't even realize it.

    If we had GS offense or system I would be ecstatic.

    DD
     
  4. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    If all KPJ does is trust his teammates more, I'd be happy with him regardless of his TS%

    I'm not asking for a lot here
     
  5. AroundTheWorld

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    Fair enough - another reason why we need a new coach - even for KPJ's sake.
     
  6. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    KPj first 22 games of 21/22 and season average
    First 22 games.....pts.....rebs....Ast....Stl....FT%....3P%.....FG%
    ..............................12.8.....4.4........5.8.....1.3....62.9....30.9......35.8
    Season..(21/22)...15.6.....4.4.......6.2.....1.1....64.2....37.5.....41.5

    22 gms (22/23)...18.8.....5.7......6.0......1.3.....76.3...34.1.....41.4
    ________________________________________________________________

    Just some progression of some PG's past and current
    DeJounte Murray
    3rd yr......10.9 pts....5.8 rebs......4.1 Ast
    4th yr......15.7 pts....7.1 rebs......5.4 Ast
    5th yr......21.1 pts....8.3 rebs......9.2 Ast
    _________
    SGA
    1st yr.....10.8 pts....2.8 rebs......3.3 Ast
    2nd yr....19.0 pts....5.9 rebs......3.3 Ast
    3rd yr.....23.7 pts....4.7 rebs......5.9 Ast
    4th yr.....24.5 pts....5.0 rebs......5.9 Ast
    5th yr.....31.1 pts....4.7 rebs......6.0 Ast (current)
    ____________
    De'Aaron Fox
    1st yr......11.6 pts....4.4 Ast
    2nd yr.....17.3 pts....7.3 Ast
    3rd yr......21.1 pts....6.8 Ast
    4th yr......25.2 pts....7.2 Ast
    _____________
    Steve Nash
    1st yr......3.3 pts......2.1 Ast
    2nd yr.....9.1 pts......3.4 Ast
    3rd yr......7.9 pts......5.5 Ast
    4th yr......8.6 pts......4.9 Ast
    5th yr.....15.6 pts.....7.3 Ast
    6th yr.....17.9 pts.....7.7 Set
    7th yr.....17.7 pts.....7.3 Ast
    8th yr.....14.5 pts......8.8 Ast
    9th yr.....15.5 pts....11.5 Ast......first yr with D'Antoni. Sometimes system matters,
    Player personnel, spacing.

    ______________

    Marcus Smart listed as PG last 3 yrs per basketball-reference.com
    20/21.....13.1 pts.....5.7 Ast
    21/22.....12.1 pts.....5.9 Ast
    22/23.....11.8 pts.....7.7 Ast

    ...I've heard some podcasts saying they wish we had a real PG like Brogdan
    (before season)

    Brogdan
    19/20 (age 27)...16.5 pts......7.1 Ast
    20/21.................21.2 pts......5.9 Ast
    21/22.................19.1 pts......5.9 Ast
    22/23.................13.9 pts......3.7 Ast

    Yeah, I'll stick with KPj at age 22 a little longer.

    I'm in no hurry
     
    #1686 ApacheWarrior, Dec 5, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2022
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  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota Fire Silas
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    If you watch the games you see that some of his turnovers are guys not following through on their cuts....he and Sengun are a great example of 2 guys whose chemistry seems off at time....

    Sengun is not a typical roller - he usually rolls to space, not to the hole and KPJ is passing to the hole ala Bruno - it is an adjustment they sometimes get right but sometimes miss.....it will get better over time - but in the meantime it will generate turnovers .....

    I see KPJ stuck between trying to facilitate or score, and when he does one over the other as a focus he does quite alright but when he is tasked with both, he struggles.

    I believe a system would give us the real data - but we don't have one....and as long as he is ISO-ing it will r****d our entire team's development.

    DD
     
  8. duluth111222

    duluth111222 I.D.I.O.T

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    But he could not. That's the problem. You can say that to every NBA player. But the cold hard fact is nobody can shoot like Curry.

    The solution is simple: (1) Move Green to PG, and let KPJ play his natural SG position. By playing him off the ball more, his efficiency I'm sure will go up. AND we don't have to suffer his iso-iso-bricks. (2) Bring him off the bench and stagger his minutes with Green
     
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  9. Mathloom

    Mathloom Consumption is a waste of time.
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    Everything you're saying is true but it's just incomplete. It's literally a list of his weaknesses. Let's describe Steph Curry in this way:

    1) Poor defender, often targeted in the playoffs.
    2) Not elite at getting to the basket.
    3) Not a good passer, his big man is a better passer than him.
    4) He's not very strong.
    5) Averages 3+ turnovers per game.

    You see when you look at this list, it's almost as though he's not a 4 time champion and one of the best players of all time. Something in your mind is triggering the CONTEXT of this list. You're thinking right now to reply to each of those points "Yes, but XYZ" or "Yes but at least XYZ" so on and so forth. You know there's a full picture because unlike a Warriors fan, you are able to access big picture thinking about their player in a way that they cannot.

    As for KPJ obviously he's nowhere near in the same galaxy as Curry, but there should be some context triggered about the big picture. For example, when we acquired KPJ he simply was not an NBA player and there was no potential role that could suit him. However, since that time:

    1) Since that time he has demonstrated almost a whole season of good NBA defense last season which is rare and anyone who says that was predictable is lying, it doesn't happen often with players like KPJ. This is half of the NBA game and offense is the other half. He has serious potential on the defensive end.
    2) Since we acquired him, he has shown himself to be a tremendous catch and shoot player on a small volume and a small part of his shot attempts.
    3) In a small sample seems to have tamed a PTSD issue that the humongous majority of people on earth are unable to do. Almost everyone we know in our life who has PTSD will die without resolving it. If you're Turkish, believe me you know many people with minor PTSD who will remain that way forever.

    These three things are significant leaps in development that are being taken for granted. They also give birth to a fourth positive point:

    4) KPJ can surprise you with leaps in development where you least saw them coming. If there was anything we though he'd improve it would be his on-ball scoring, but we were wrong about that.

    Place these 4 points next to the list of weaknesses you wrote down and now you have the full picture.

    That's the full context of the KPJ experiment which is in a slump right now. He has been disappointing at being a floor general, keeping his defense up and making quicker decisions on the ball. I have no issue with acknowledging that. However I take issue with anyone who says this is who he is and who he will always be. He has already proven to us not to count him out even if it's late. It's not really affecting the other players so much anymore except a play here or a play there, and any young player who is believing that their only problem in the world is that KPJ is still learning the PG position is lying to himself. It's not as though KPJ has a bunch of wonderful shot makers to pass the ball to, they all still have holes in their game.

    It's good to be optimistic for your team. I predict we'll see growth from KPJ in these next 20 games, you can mark my words and I'm happy to eat crow if I'm wrong. Keep calm sir, we're going to be alright and if we're not going to be alright, we will get another PG at some point. AND if the coach sucks, when the team needs to have a great coach we will hire one. Stone has been hands off for the time being, but he's an asset manager at heart and will not hesitate to make difficult changes. No one's career is at risk, all our youngsters are developing at an excellent pace for NBA standards.
     
    #1689 Mathloom, Dec 5, 2022
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2022
  10. i3artow i3aller

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    KPJ needs to display marked improvement over the remainder of this season and he'll have every opportunity to do just that. At the same time his development should no longer be the Rocket's foremost priority going forward seeing as Green, Jabari, Alperen and Tari are all more important core pieces imo. I for one don't particularly see KPJ suddenly changing his style of play, but I sure hope that he can.
     
  11. AroundTheWorld

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    He said he would like to play more off the ball...if he means what he says, then that would be even more of an indictment on Silas and the front office.
     
  12. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I'm not talking about his TO's Dada...we're having two different conversations here.

    I don't think he's a bad guy or selfish even. I just think he doesn't have the mental capacity to understand why you pass the ball and how you use your skills to move the defense then pass the ball not for an assist but to keep the defense scrambling. That's his flaw. He can't do that. He wants to be Harden but he's not. He has to be more of a Schroder - a guy who moves the ball vs generating points and then assists. Points and assists isn't what we need most from KPJ - it's getting other guys involved.
     
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  13. i3artow i3aller

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  14. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    He's said that for a while now, the issue is there's no one else competent to consistently handle the ball right now. Green is starting to come along, but he's not quite there yet.... and honestly he doesn't seem to even want the responsibility very often.

    They could just go to Sengun in the post every single play but given Sengun is more likely to turn the ball over than to pick up an assist, it's hard to think that's truly viable at the moment either.

    We're just going to have to be patient as this ridiculously young team figures it all out.... something made more difficult due to a lack of competent coaching.
     
  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota Fire Silas
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    He has this season and the next, we are paying him 16m - it will be 130 games to see.

    DD
     
  16. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

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    tate can handle it

    tate has been glue thats missing

    however , i am wondering if we are holding him out on purpose . KMJ , Gordon , and Nix are all getting some of his mins .

    Knowing silas however , he will probably just take away sengun and easons/ garuba's mins to work tate back in .

    I am OK with what has happened the 1st 1/4th of the season. But , we need to be building more going forward . Getting Tate back , IMO is key to that . Subbing Tate ( who is a dog) back in for Gordon ( checked out ) will do wonders for our team D .

    Tate wanted to play with Sengun more LAST YEAR .

    Tate /garuba / eason is an all-dawg lineup . If smith and green come into their own thats who i think the lineup of the future is . Sengun will be in the rotation as will KPJ , but i think tate /eason/garuba is just too much fight to leave off the floor .... if they dont foul out
     
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  17. duluth111222

    duluth111222 I.D.I.O.T

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    That bounce pass to Sengun was mind boggling. Not even close. But that’s not the worst part. Worst part was him not going back to defense. When the basket was made, he was still at the 3pt line leaving Sengun helpless.
     
  18. hlmbasketball

    hlmbasketball Member
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    Very well put together! Thank you
     
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  19. duluth111222

    duluth111222 I.D.I.O.T

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    But I guess Sengun is a bad defender because he could not protect the rim on that fast break.
     
  20. i3artow i3aller

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    At PG? I don't know about that. TBH I think next year is probably an entirely different story if i had to guess. Luck into Wemby and HOU would surely be seeking a veteran point to steady the ship. Miss out and then Scoot Hendersen, Nick Smith, Amen Thompson & Anthony Black become very interesting options. Hopefully by then KPJ will be more open-minded about embracing a much more natural 6th man role.
     
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