I came across one of my favorite sayings tonight and I'd like to share it along with a story. As many of you know, I have an affinity for Eastern philosophy, so these have that bent to them, but I like them and thought maybe someone else might find them useful: There were two Buddhist monks walking along a road when they approached a river. At the side of the river was a prostitute who needed to cross but could not swim. The older monk picked her up and carried her across the river. She thanked him and the monks continued on their way. A while later, the younger monk, knowing their vow of purity, said, "Master, I cannot believe you would defile yourself by carrying that woman across the river." The elder monk said, "I put her down back by the river, why are you still carrying her?" Ok, now the saying - it is a Zen saying: "Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." Enjoy! ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
Jeff: Familiar with Chuang Tzu? He is my favorite Taoist sage. "Webbed Toes" and "Horses Hooves" are always good reads. ------------------ rimbaud post-a-thon 2000
Mango: I'm not familiar with him. Enlighten me! rimbaud: I must confess that my knowledge of Taoism is limited to the basic teachings I have learned and the Taoists I've talked with. I'll have to look for some works by Chuang Tzu. Sounds interesting. Thanks for the tip. ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
I've always liked this Orientalism qoute: "The person who knows, doesn't know; and the person who doesn't know, knows." Eastern Religons tend to go past petty words to the actual experience of..... ------------------ [This message has been edited by ROCKETBOOSTER (edited May 12, 2000).]
Just a little sarcastic humor here. I'm not trying to belittle eastern philosophy, 'cause I think its cool, too. Confusious(sp?) says: "Baseball is wrong: A man with four balls cannot walk." [oops...thanks, dreamer.] ------------------ I need a new signature. 302 [This message has been edited by Lynus302 (edited May 12, 2000).]
Well, that of course is a Christian belief to which I simply do not ascribe. If you want to believe we are inherently evil, that is your choice, but I think that is a pretty sad way to view our existence. As for which power corrupts and which doesn't, I believe power that is centered on ego or sense of self ultimate corrupts but power that flows from our sense of responsibility to others doesn't. But, I think we are getting off the subject here. Wasn't this similar to the other thread I started? ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
Jeff, to bring us back to the original: "Those who dream of the banquet may weep the next morning, and those who dream of weeping may go out to hunt after dawn. When we dream we do not know that we are dreaming. In our dreams we may even interpret our dreams. Only after we are awake do we know that we have dreamed. But there comes a great awakening, and then we know that life is a great dream. But the stupid think they are awake all the time and believe they know it distinctly. "Once I, Chuang Tzu, dreamed I was a butterfly and was happy as a butterfly. I was conscious that I was quite pleased with myself, but I did not know that I was Tzu. Suddenly I awoke, and there was I, visibly Tzu. I do not know whether it was Tzu dreaming that he was a butterfly or the butterfly dreaming that he was Tzu. Between Tzu and the butterfly there must be some distinction. [But one may be the other.] This is called the transformation of things." ------------------------------------------- "The mind of the perfect man is like a mirror. It does not lean forward or backward in response to things. It responds to things but conceals nothing of its own. Therefore it is able to deal with things without injury to [its reality]." Both Chuang Tzu. ------------------ rimbaud post-a-thon 2000 [This message has been edited by rimbaud (edited May 12, 2000).]
mc mark, Sounds good until you realize what/who created "society" and "environment".... MAN --------------------------------- Sorry to get off topic. Here's one thing my Dad told me that still sticks with me to this day. He's not Asian or anything, but what the heck. "Don't even get yourself in the position to get into trouble." What he was saying was that if you allow yourself to be involved in circumstances where you could do something spiritually or physically wrong, then you should accept the consequences for whatever may happen. Just for fun, I'll translate it into an "Eastern philosophical" saying. "Do not stand on volcano... it may erupt."
DREAMer-- Freud held the same belief as you that man, at birth, is inherently evil. His theory of the id, ego, and superego as the three basic stages of child development is based on that belief. I think evil is too strong a word for children, but, as any parent knows, they are clearly born without any sense of morality or understanding of right and wrong. ------------------
The Dharma-realm of Suchness knows no"other", no "self". If you desire to approach and enter it, only say to yourself "not two" Where there are "not two" all is uniform, nothing not enfolded there. Wise ones of the ten directions all make their way to this Source. In this Source, no long or short time spans: one moment is ten thousand years; no "here" or "not here" all ten directions right before your eyes. The tiniest is one with the huge, all boundaries and realms wiped out. The largest is one with the tiny, extremes no longer seen. Being-this is nonbeing, nonbeing-this is being. any view at variance with this must not be held! One-this is all, all-this is one. when you can see this manner, what worries will not fade? When trust and mind are not two, not two, trust and mind. there all words break off, no past no future, no now. Seng`Ts'an ------------------ You just want to be on the side thats winning.
Hey Jeff your right knowledge is power try convincing some people that getting your degree in college is worth it even if u can play in the NBA. im 16 years old and i think getting a degree in college/high school is necessary for every1 capable in society including athletes. knowledge really is power try this one this one of my favorite quotes i found today. "That old law eye for an eye leaves everyone blind" Martin Luther King jr. ------------------ --TEX
"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." John Quincy Adams "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely" Lord Acton http://www.tpub.com/Quotes/a.htm Mango ------------------ Arch Stanton lives! Donate Blood!
Jeff, If knowledge is power, and power corrupts, then what does knowledge do? ------------------------------- Lynus, I'm am assuming that you meant to put a "not" somewhere in that passage. Somewhere inbetween "I'm" and "trying", possibly? [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited May 12, 2000).]
DREAMer: By circular logic, knowledge would then corrupt. However, I don't think it quite goes that way. The kind of power knowledge creates is quite different than the power ego creates. ------------------ "No one gets out ALIVE!" SaveOurRockets.com
If you say certain kinds of power don't corrupt, which ones do and which ones don't? I don't think the essence of knowledge or power or anything like that corrupts. I believe man is inherently evil and will take things and corrupt them. Like with religion. Religion is man made, but belief isn't. That's why there are so many examples of men who have commited atrocities in the name of a certain religion, because they are men. Man is capable of taking the most pure and peaceful of ideas and corrupting them, even "true knowledge", mc mark. [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited May 12, 2000).]
Dreamer, This is not a challenge, so take it with a grain of salt. Do you really believe that man is inherently evil? Can you say that a child is born into the world with a tendency towards evil? I would have to disagree. A child is born with no preconceived concepts. I think it is society and environment that brings on the tendency towards evil. I just cannot believe that we are inherently evil. It would be very sad if this were true. Anyone else have any thoughts on this? ------------------
