Knee Problems

Not to be an a$$ but let me save you some time and go ahead and skip to the end of the thread.

Go see a doctor.

 

Sounds like tendonitis ~ I believe they will have to remove your knee to correct the problem.

 

I would try glucosamine and chondroitin supplements long before I'd let them cut on my knee again. Of course if something is seriously (structurally) wrong you may not be able to avoid surgery. If you're still able to function ok and your knee isn't swelling alot, giving the supplements a try at least 6 months won't hurt anything.

 

Ditto

 

They are at any health food store, and now most grocery stores (many Seniors use them for their joints). They have been known about for a number of years but as with all supplements, they were derided by the medical community until 1 MD ( ) wrote 1 book about how great they are.

I had chronic knee pain for years after running 6 miles a day since I was a young teen and then doing cartwheels down a ski mountain. These supplements did away with the pain. Surgery practically screwed-up my knee more than it was.

If I ever get a hint of pain, I take them again and it goes away. Put my mother-in-law on them and she had the same experience. They are not pain killers; they help your body heal the cartilidge (common belief used to be that the body did not repair cartilidge, but that was untrue) and produce the joint lubricating (synovial) fluid.

Note: cartilidge and ligaments recover slowly, so have patience.

http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-086b.shtml


Glucosamine
Glucosamine is found in fish, meat, and other foods. This amino acid compound is particularly helpful in treating arthritis pain because it stimulates connective tissue, encouraging it to repair itself. Glucosamine is chondroprotective which means that it protects the chondrocytes that are found in large quantities in the joints.

Glucosamine is made in the body from glucose (sugar) and an amino acid called glutamine. Glucosamine serves as a building block of mucopolysaccharides (MPS) which are important for the development of cartilage, bone, ligaments, nails, hair, and skin. We can also get glucosamine from supplements.

As we get older or when we are injured, the body produces less glucosamine. This is surprising. One would think that the body would produce more glucosamine in order to repair the injury. Unfortunately, even small injuries that are not repaired can lead to greater damage and pain. Taking glucosamine gives the body the material it needs to help repair damaged cartilage. It often works best when taken with the fatty acids GLA, DHA, and EPA; chondroitin sulfate; manganese; and vitamins C and E.

Many studies have shown glucosamine to be a potent natural remedy for osteoarthritis that seems to affect so many of us as we age. It also opposes degeneration of the substance of the joints that occurs in arthritis. Several studies conducted at research centers in Europe have shown that supplemental glucosamine reduces joint pain, tenderness, and swelling, making joints that had been frozen with pain and inflammation usable again (Vajaradul 1981).

Glucosamine does not work as fast as some standard pain medications, but it does so without the serious side effects associated with drugs. In fact, many European physicians give glucosamine to their osteoarthritis patients as a first line treatment, turning to drugs only in cases where the amino acid is not effective. Currently, over 5 million Americans take glucosamine or glucosamine and chondroitin combinations (Maher 2001).

Glucosamine appears to be even more effective in the form of glucosamine sulfate. Like glucosamine, sulfate is a component of joint cartilage. The sulfate also appears to strengthen the healing effects of glucosamine. Here are some of the studies on glucosamine sulfate.

A group of 20 patients with osteoarthritis of the knee was given either 500 mg of glucosamine sulphate 3 times a day, or a placebo. Within 6-8 weeks, subjects receiving glucosamine sulfate experienced significant reductions in pain, joint tenderness, and swelling. There were no reported side effects (Pujalte et al. 1980).

A randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind study was carried out with 202 patients for 3 years. Some were given glucosamine sulphate, 1500 mg, once a day. The researchers wanted to see if long-term treatment with glucosamine could alter the progression of osteoarthritis in the knee. Based on the various tests that were carried out, there was a significant improvement of 20-25% in the glucosamine group. The authors concluded that long-term use with glucosamine slowed progression of the disease, possibly determining disease modification (Pavelka et al. 2002).

A group of 80 osteoarthritis patients experiencing pain, movement restriction, and swelling was given either glucosamine sulfate or a placebo: 73% of subjects receiving glucosamine sulfate experienced an improvement in symptoms within 3 weeks. What is more, when those who received glucosamine sulfate were biopsied and their cartilage was examined under an electron microscope, it looked much healthier than the cartilage taken from the placebo group (Drovanti et al. 1980).

Glucosamine sulfate was compared to ibuprofen in a double-blind study involving 40 patients with osteoarthritis of the knee. As expected, the ibuprofen worked faster. But, by the eighth week, subjects taking glucosamine sulfate were doing better than subjects taking ibuprofen, with significantly fewer complaints (Lopes Vaz 1982). In two other studies, one with 200 patients and another with 178, similar results were noted. The researchers in one of the studies noted that glucosamine was more effective because it curbed the pathogenic mechanisms of osteoarthritis (Muller-Fassbender et al. 1994; Gui et al. 1998). If taking glucosamine sulfate, follow label directions on the bottle. (This approach is explored in more detail in the Arthritis protocol.)


Chondroitin Sulfate
Chondroitin sulfate provides building materials for cartilage that is so often damaged in arthritis. Chondroitin sulfate slows the free radicals that attack the cartilage in joints. It also increases the flow of blood to joints, thus allowing antioxidants and other healing substances produced by the body to protect and repair body tissue. When arthritis patients were given injections of chondroitin sulfate, joint pain diminished significantly, and mobility and function returned.

Chondroitin sulfate is found in shark cartilage. A summary of two studies in which shark cartilage was used on arthritis patients follows:

Shark cartilage capsules were given to six osteoarthritis patients who had not found relief with conventional anti-inflammatory medications. By the fourth week, the patients reported less pain and inflammation and greater joint mobility (Orcasita 1989).
Either cartilage extracts or a placebo were given to 147 patients who had osteoarthritis in another long-term, double-blind study. After 5 years, average pain scores had fallen by 85% in the cartilage group, compared with only 5% in those receiving the placebo. The cartilage group also had less joint deterioration and took significantly less time off from work (Rejholec 1987).
The suggested dosage of shark cartilage for arthritis patients is 2000-3000 mg daily. However, most people take a combination supplement that provides 400-500 mg each of both chondroitin and glucosamine sulfate. Typical daily doses are 2-8 capsules daily.

 

I think this is the book: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=Ve2C5Jh9HT&isbn=0312990634&itm=1

 

This thread is reminding me of Miss Information from South Park.

Manny...it might be worth your while to go see a doctor. A while back, I started having knee problems out of the blue and the little knot that comprises the smaller part of the knee cap began swelling and hurting after I would jog. I finally gave in and went to a sports medicine physician. It took him two seconds to look at xrays to see that I have bipartite patella...which is a two-piece knee cap. I was born with it and it never bothered me while growing up. But apparently after I started getting older (and heavier), my joints were not prepared to handle the strain my girth was putting on them and the two pieces were rubbing against each other. I was given two options...deal with the pain or have the extra piece removed. My knee did not bother me enough to have to relearn to use it. So I've just dealt with it. It flares up from time to time, but other than that...no problems. I'm glad I had it diagnosed. Initially I was beginning to think that I had some serious damage.

 

And a PCP will be able to tell you very little about your knee. Even xrays provide very little insight. You'll need a d*mn good orthopaedist and at least a CAT scan (I believe an MRI is preferred). If knee surgery is indicated, remember that it's quite imperfect. It's a throw of the dice whether you'll be better off before or after.

Why go if your body can heal itself? Again, if you are having no serious problems walking, there's no reason to not let the supplements have a chance to do their job.

 

Doctors in Houston don't have Urgent Care?

 

Manny, excuse me if I am dead wrong, but didnt you used to be a bit on the round side, and then you started working out religiously after that? And then you got in pretty decent shape?

My bro used to be pretty tubby. Ok, he was the staypuff marshmallow man. Got into weights and cardio almost obsessively (but better a workout junkie than a heroin junkie....or an aggressive God Squader imho)...anyway...his knees and elbows got pretty messed up with tendonitis. He just pushed himself too hard. 27 years of only working out the clicker followed by 3 years of intense bodybuilding is a big adjustment for the body to take. He's now 6'0" and 175 (I think he was 245) but tendonitis shows up from time to time. He swears by the glucosamine....but he consults with a doc, too. You only get one body, why mess around?

Once again, if I'm off target, sorry. Lots of people on this board and we've had a lot of Atkins/South Beach/How Much Can You Bench Press threads in the past 3 years.

 

As long as your ambling around, what do you expect an urgent care doc to tell you about your knee?

 

Your bro was good in Ghostbusters.

 

Well the problem sounds serious, at least to me. I would go to a doctor but it's your body Manny. Good luck with what ever you choose!

 

Oh i agree.

And if you need surgery, give me a call.

My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.