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Kevin Garnett vs. Dirk Nowitzki

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by dharocks, Nov 27, 2013.

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Who's the greatest non-Duncan PF of his generation?

Poll closed Nov 27, 2014.
  1. Dirk Nowitzki

    47.4%
  2. Kevin Garnett

    52.6%
  1. Wilezra

    Wilezra Member

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    Kwame hasn't achieved anything in the NBA, Dirk has. He brought the team on his back against the Heat and simply dominated. I'd put a lot more stock in Jordan's assessment of a player's performance during an actual NBA championship playoff series than some high school games and pre-draft workouts.

    Dirk's playstyle usually revolves around the perimeter and not where traditional PFs position at the post which affects his overall defensive stats, particularly blocks.

    KG and Tim Duncan are the top two in defensive winshares. Dirk's 7th. It's only several spots away so it's nowhere near as terrible as some posters here, including yourself, claim.

    As much as people love claiming that defense wins championships (and I happen to agree), it's just damn near impossible to defend against Dirk's fadeaway. Just ask Lebron. As a member of the 50-40-90 club, those shots will more likely fall than not too.
     
  2. benvolio

    benvolio Member

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    I took my son to the Mavs games last night for his first NBA game. The importance of Dirk to the Mavs was more noticeable in person. He is the face of the team, his is in all of the commercial spots, he got the biggest laughs in the silly "What does the Mav Say?" video....AND when he is on the court, everyone's job is easier, when he is off the court, the Mavs struggle to score.
    He made shot after shot that no one on the planet can stop. He got others open 3's and layups. He cranked it out like it was Monday morning.

    Dirk does the A to Z for the Mavs like no one I have ever seen. Even Timmy doesn't have to fill all of those rolls like Dirk does. Garnet is a great competitor and raises the level of his teammates play but at the end of the day, the team with the most points wins. Dirk delivers buckets...plus lots more.
     
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Personally they are both hall of fame players, but Dirk is so much more clutch than KG ever is or was.

    And Dirk is not a douchebag - so I give my vote to Dirk.

    DD
     
  4. VBG

    VBG Member

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    Dirk being a terrible defender is so overblown. He's nowhere near as bad as the media sometimes portrays him. But it's a catchy thing to say.
     
  5. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    Oh, right, because Kwame Brown was the only stupid thing Jordan's done in his career at managing and evaluating which players are the best.:rolleyes:

    I honestly don't care what NBA players think about other NBA players, because they've shown over and over again that there's no real correlation between being a great player and knowing who the best players are. Some great players can manage like Bird, others are well, Isiah. Hell, even if it mattered, I could just throw back the relation between KG and another player who was nearly as good as Jordan in Russell.
     
  6. Panda23

    Panda23 Member

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    This.

    the clincher for me was when he just sonned Ibaka.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Contributing Member

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    No, he's bad.
     
  8. J Hard

    J Hard Member

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    KG every single time.

    KG never had any help in Minn, it was sad. When he finally did (Sam Cassell and Sprewell) they almost got to the Finals, he should've beat the Lakers in the WCF but Cassell had back issues which halted them there.

    People saying that KG did it with Pierce and Allen diminishes his ring are fooling themselves. So does Kobe get an asterisk bc he was surrounded by great players?

    Dirk had great teams most of his prime with Nash and a plethora of other great players he was surrounded by that I don't have enough time to list.

    Bottom line, place KG on the Mavs for his career and Dirk on Minn for his career and I bet Kevin would've had more Championship success than Dirk.

    Dirk is literally half the player Garnett is, bc KG defense is all time great. Dirk's defense all time sucks.

    Ppl criticize Harden for his D and would choos Paul George bc his defense is worlds better than Harden, and that's fair. Picking KG on defense alone is fair as well, but he is an elite player on both ends of the court.

    KG every time.
     
  9. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    really, i don't think you could switch dirk or kg on either of their title teams and still get a championship. i don't think dallas could lose what dirk brought offensively no matter how much garnett brought defensively. and i don't think boston could gain enough offensively to make up for the defensive ability/intensity/identity garnett brought them.

    overall, dirk's 2011 run makes things tough. the guy was almost impossibly good in 4th quarter/clutch situations in that title run. i think in either the 2nd or 3rd round they showed his clutch stats (or maybe just 4th quarter) and i want to say his true shooting percentage was up around 100. and i don't even think the sample size was that small. they had that unbelievable comeback against the thunder, then another against the heat. it seemed like the 4th quarter would start and dirk would just decide he was done missing shots. but there's also no denying that that team was built perfectly for dirk. it didn't seem like he had to create for others, defend, or rebound. but he still scored so much and warped the offensive side of the court so much it didn't matter. but really i don't think dirk could ever pull that off again. it's like he put a career's worth of frustration into just dominating crunch time and he pulled it off and then seemingly gave up on basketball the next season once cuban decided to trade chandler.


    also, this is the same dirk that wasn't good in the 2006 finals and then lost to an 8th seed with a 67 win team (though they were a terrible matchup) the next year. he screwed up 2 really good title chances. and i once saw him get completely embarrassed in a playoff series by mcgrady, though mcgrady was no slouch.

    garnett does not have great offensive efficiencies in the playoffs and couldn't get out of the first round forever. but he did make the conference finals the first time he had a good supporting cast and then won a title the 2nd time he did. of course they damn near choked the 2008 title away in the first and second rounds and needed pj brown to hit some shots to keep things going. and then he made the finals the 3rd season that he had help (injured the playoffs in between those 2 years) so it's somewhat harder to hold the early playoff failures against him since he did what he could when he got help.

    but still, the falloff in his PER, TS%, and WS/48 in the playoffs is in the bottom tier for all-time greats. in the stockton and malone region. dirk is around the upper 1/3 in terms of how little his stats fall off in the playoffs (almost everyone's efficiencies get a little worse due to playing better teams). it seems hard to deny garnett's overall game, dominating defense, and success when he had help. but it's also hard to deny the disparity in playoff step-up/fall-off that goes in dirk's favor, his overall offensive efficiency, and that 2011 run. i'm really not sure i feel great picking either. it's like braveheart vs gladiator. it depends on how i feel that particular day.
     
  10. dharocks

    dharocks Contributing Member

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    Dirk's certainly not a stopper (or even an asset) on D, but it's not like he's ever been a complete abomination like Amare. He's fine. And when you're a true stretch PF who's an excellent defensive rebounder, being even just passable on defense gives your team a major advantage.
     
  11. yummyhawtsauce

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    Dirk only because he will play more seasons and is more durable. KG's defense and toughness takes a lot out of him. I like KG more but Dirk will outlast KG
     
  12. Wilezra

    Wilezra Member

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    Really? Are you saying us fans are better at recognizing talent in players rather than their actual peers? Nay, NBA legends?? Ohhh-kay...

    Well if you don't like what MJ has to say about him, what about Barkley eh? As someone who plays the same position as Dirk and known to be one of the toughest and dominating players of his time, he should be more qualified right? And Barkley's loved Dirk's game since he first saw him play when he was 18.

    No? Well since you mentioned Bird, the guy actually felt honored he was being compared to Dirk. Not saying Dirk comes even remotely close to Bird's greatness but that Bird is simply okay with the comparison. He had a lot of great things to say too but I won't bore you with the actual quote.

    Sorry but I'd rather have the opinions of the greatest basketball athletes in the history of the sport rather than those of keyboard warriors in any basketball forum.

    Why don't you shift your argument to my point regarding Dirk's offensive skills outweighing KG's defensive benefits instead.
     
  13. ln3012

    ln3012 Member

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    i don't think that's necessarily true. KG was drafted in 95...it's already his 19th season
     
  14. Raven

    Raven Member

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    Dirk by a mile, maybe two miles, and the distance between him and Duncan isn't as far as most think. Duncan is the better player, but Dirk is not far behind.
     
  15. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    yeah i don't know why a few people are mentioning dirk being good for a few more years when kg is falling off. kg is 2 years older than dirk. he should fall off first. of course i remember shaq/duncan arguments where people would mention that duncan was still going strong while shaq was falling off while seemingly ignoring the fact that duncan was 4 years younger and started playing 5 years later.
     
  16. SunsRocketsfan

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    No he's not

    Agree with others..this os debateable if dirk didnt not go on fire and deny lebron his first ring in miami.
     
  17. gambingo

    gambingo Member

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    I'll take Dirk. KG defense is overrated, skill bigs like Dirk/Duncan/Yao owned him.
     
  18. SunsRocketsfan

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    For all you KG supporters. Ask yourself this...
    If you swap Dirk for KG on the 2011 Mavs team do you they would have won or beat Miami...answer is clearly NO! The Heat would have shut him down defensively and it would have been a 5 game series

    Pierce was also the goto guy on that celtic team and not KG. Also have we mentioned KG is a big dbag?
     
  19. Pull_Up_3

    Pull_Up_3 Member

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    this

    people acting like KG was super good defensively

    just lol....Dirk still winning the poll i see
     
  20. LCAhmed

    LCAhmed Contributing Member

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    KG is the better overall player. KG is one of the best 2 way playing PFs of all time! I know Dirk is like almost on Bird's level as far as shooting, but KG's Defense and leadership cannot be denied. You can't really go wrong with either, but I'd take KG. He's very much like a Ray Lewis on the basketball court

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

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