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Kerry Decries Bush Plan to Recall Troops

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by IROC it, Aug 19, 2004.

  1. IROC it

    IROC it Member

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    Kerry Decries Bush Plan to Recall Troops

    http://my.ev1.net/english/news/newsarticle.asp?articleID=33479516&subject=political

    ohn Kerry, telling fellow combat veterans he's their "true brother in arms," said Wednesday that President Bush's plan to withdraw U.S. troops from Europe and Asia would weaken U.S. security and embolden nuclear-armed North Korea.

    "This is clearly the wrong signal to send at the wrong time," the Democratic presidential candidate said at the Veterans of Foreign Wars' 105th annual convention, borrowing a line Bush has used against him.

    Some Bush supporters and a few fellow veterans have been raising questions about Kerry's military record, which has been a cornerstone of his presidential campaign. Senior Democrats inside and outside the campaign say they're worried about indications, some based on polling, that the criticism might be undercutting gains Kerry made against Bush in the Democratic National Convention, with its spotlight on his combat record and military honors from the Vietnam War.

    Some Democrats are urging Kerry to fight back against the criticism, which gained steam this month with a TV ad featuring fellow veterans questioning his record. Kerry campaign officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, said he may have to do so.

    Addressing the same VFW crowd two days earlier, the president announced a seven- to 10-year plan to withdraw up to 70,000 U.S. troops from Cold War bases in Europe and Asia. He accused Kerry of sending "the wrong signal" by promising to try to withdraw U.S. troops from Iraq within six months of taking office.

    Along with the economy, national security has emerged as a major theme in a campaign shadowed by war and terrorism.

    The challenger hopes to convince voters he is tough enough to lead the nation against terror. The incumbent, his approval ratings hurt by the war in Iraq, is casting himself as a tested commander in chief who can guide the nation back to peace and prosperity.

    Both men call the other lacking on defense, with Kerry now taking aim at Bush's troop-shifting plans.

    "Let's be clear: The president's vaguely stated plan does not strengthen our hand in the war against terror, and in no way relieves the strain on our overextended military personnel," Kerry told the crowd after repeatedly reminding the veterans of his own combat experience in the Vietnam War.

    "Why are we unilaterally withdrawing 12,000 troops from the Korean Peninsula at the very time we are negotiating with North Korea
    a country that really has nuclear weapons?" the Massachusetts senator said. That last phrase was a reference to Iraq, which apparently did not have nuclear weapons when Bush ordered the invasion, with support from Kerry and others in Congress.

    Bush, campaigning in Wisconsin, said Wednesday, "Our troop deployments were configured for the Cold War
    we were configured to fight an enemy that no longer exists. ... When you can replace land troops with more effective aircraft it means people are stationed at home and they can be deployed rapidly and it's less unsettling times for our troops, less rotations, less pressure on the system, plus taxpayer savings."

    White House spokesman Scott McClellan noted that Kerry expressed support on Aug. 1 for possible redeployment of U.S. troops throughout the world, including in Korea.

    Kerry foreign policy adviser Rand Beers said Kerry would consider moving some U.S. troops farther south on the Korean Peninsula to avoid a strike from the North. But he would not move them off the peninsula, Beers said, unless such action was part of a broader agreement with North Korea to scrap its nuclear program and reduce its conventional forces.

    On Monday, Bush received a commander-in-chief's welcome from the VFW in this Republican-leaning city, drawing loud cheers of support. The veterans, who tend to vote more Republican than Democratic, gave Kerry a polite welcome.

    Large portions of the crowd applauded each of his many promises to protect veterans' benefits. Smaller portions vocally backed his points on Iraq and terrorism. Some veterans sat with arms folded, while others stood and clapped.

    One man heckled Kerry, calling him a liar.

    "I'll say it myself. He's a liar," said John Ranson of Fort Thomas, Ky., a 57-year-old Vietnam veteran who sat a few feet away from the heckler. He said Kerry had not supported U.S. troops as a senator or three decades ago as a returning Vietnam veteran who protested the war.


    But there was no shortage of Kerry supporters, including some who voted for Bush in 2000. Dale Hall, 49, of Franklin Park, Ill., said Bush has "got a mess overseas. I stand behind the troops, of course, but he's not done a good job."

    Kerry tried to connect with the crowd, saying that if elected "you will have a true brother in arms" who will protect veterans' benefits and improve the nation's security.

    He did not mention that Bush served stateside in the Texas Air National Guard, though Kerry's allies have accused the president of using family connections to stay out of Vietnam.

    Bush's troop announcement on Monday was filled with political implications. His advisers predicted the plan would please swing voters weary of Iraq, though it involves troops in Europe and Asia, not the Mideast. Bush was in Wisconsin on Wednesday, promising extra education benefits for National Guard members and reservists.

    Kerry suggested that Bush's troop plan would upset allies, whose help is needed as the U.S. fights the al-Qaida terror network in 60 countries.

    -----=====-------======-------

    This trips me out. A group of individuals is attacking Kerry, so he "may have to" attack Bush himself?

    Nice leadership skills.
     
  2. lpbman

    lpbman Member

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    The troops in Europe are truely relics and aren't the special forces most often used in fighting terror, and seriously doubt they are even wanted there... just my opinion as I can't find any real research into the subject


    moving the troops out of South Korea is a bad move imo... North Korea is a bully and run by a punk just looking for signs of weakness


    Kerry and Bush are both wrong:(
     
  3. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    Where does it say he's going to attack Bush?
     
  4. dc rock

    dc rock Member

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    Meanwhile in one battleground state.....


    Poll: Kerry Continues to Hold Edge in Pa.

    Wednesday August 18, 2004 12:00 PM


    AP Photo IDLR103

    By LARA JAKES JORDAN

    Associated Press Writer

    WASHINGTON (AP) - Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry is maintaining a slight lead over President Bush in the battleground state of Pennsylvania with crucial support from veterans and military families, according to a poll released Wednesday.

    The Quinnipiac University survey shows Kerry with a slight advantage over Republican Bush, 47 percent to 42 percent, with independent candidate Ralph Nader capturing 4 percent.

    Last month, the same poll showed Kerry with the same edge - a five-point, 46-41, advantage over Bush in the state.

    Pennsylvania veterans and those in military families say they disapprove of the war in Iraq by a 13-point margin. While this group is traditionally more conservative than voters at large, Kerry has the support of 46 percent among this group to 42 percent for Bush.

    ``In what may prove to be damaging news for the president, the anti-war attitude among voters from military households in Pennsylvania is greater than the attitude among all voters,'' said Clay F. Richards, assistant director of the Connecticut-based Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.


    Military families and veterans oppose the war by 54 percent to 41 percent. Overall, Pennsylvania voters are more evenly divided on Iraq: 48 percent say going to war was the wrong thing to do, compared with 46 percent who support the president's decision.

    The Quinnipiac poll of 1,430 registered Pennsylvania voters was conducted Aug. 11-16. It has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2.5 percentage points.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/story/0,1282,-4430804,00.html
     
  5. basso

    basso Member
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  6. basso

    basso Member
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    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040818/480/ohdk10308181644

    [​IMG]
    War veterans Jere Hill, middle, from Warham, Mass., and Robert Gibson, right, from Lexington, Ky., stand with their backs turned during Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry (news - web sites)'s speech at the 105th Veterans of Foreign Wars National Convention in Cincinnati on Wednesday, Aug. 18, 2004. Man in foreground is unidentified. Kerry received a polite if not overwhelmingly positive reaction from the VFW. But there was a clear divide, with scores of veterans sittings with their arms folded while others clapped. (AP Photo/David Kohl)
     
  7. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    By the way, Norman Schwarzkopf endorsed W in 2000 by saying this...

    "... Recalling back to Operation Desert Storm, I can't help asking myself: Wouldn't it be great for our armed forces and for America if we could have another commander-in-chief named George Bush with Dick Cheney on his team?"

    Now, we get this...

    MATTHEWS: Who are you voting for?

    SCHWARZKOPF: I`ve--you know, I`ve--I`ve always told you--I`ve always told you I`m an independent.

    MATTHEWS: But you got to vote, you know? Is it going to be for Bush, Kerry, or Nader. I don`t think it`s Nader, so how about one of the other two?

    SCHWARZKOPF: What`s wrong with Nader? You don`t like Nader?

    MATTHEWS: --I`m trying to probe here, General. I`m just probing. No comment?

    SCHWARZKOPF: Let me put it this way. You know,-- I`ll know exactly who I`m voting for the day I pull the lever on that machine or push the buttons, whatever it happens to be.


    Not exactly an endorsement form Stormin' Norman, who went on to say...

    MATTHEWS: now we`re going to withdraw a third of our troops from the DMZ. Is it possible that might send him the wrong signal?
    SCHWARZKOPF: Yes, well, it`s very, very possible. But worse than that, it`s going to send a very, very, very wrong signal to the people in South Korea. They`re the ones that are going to be looking at what this is going to result in.

    MATTHEWS: What about Europe?...Is that the signal we want to send, we`re out there alone now?

    SCHWARZKOPF: No, I don`t think so...but you know, under the doctrine that Rumsfeld is advocating, that we`re going to have these, you know, high-powered rapid reaction forces that can get over there very quickly and some kind of airplane that hasn`t been invented yet or some kind of other way to get over there very quickly, and therefore, we don`t need to have them in place at the time, we can get them there quick enough to; something else about it -- that`s going to be a very expensive proposition to put together, by the way.
     
  8. IROC it

    IROC it Member

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    Well it's happening...

    --=--=--=--=--
    http://my.ev1.net/english/news/newsarticle.asp?articleID=33774956&subject=political

    Kerry: Bush Lets Groups Do 'Dirty Work'

    John Kerry fought back Thursday against campaign allegations that he exaggerated his combat record in Vietnam, accusing President Bush of using a Republican front group "to do his dirty work" and challenging Bush to debate their wartime service records.

    "Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service in Vietnam, here is my answer: Bring it on," said the Democratic presidential candidate, reviving an old war and campaign slogan amid strong urging from party leaders for him to respond to two-week-old GOP assertions.

    As Kerry denounced the criticism as "lies about my record," aides privately acknowledged that they and their boss had been slow to recognize the damage being done to his political standing.

    Kerry won three Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star and Silver Star for Vietnam War combat. Bush served stateside in the Texas Air National Guard. Both men say the other served honorably, but their supporters are pouring tens of thousands of dollars into television ads and other tactics to insist otherwise.

    MoveOn.org, a liberal group funded by Kerry supporters, is airing an ad accusing Bush of using family connections to avoid the Vietnam War. It also asks the president to denounce an ad that aired early this month by "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth," a GOP-leaning group of Vietnam veterans who say Kerry exaggerated his actions to win Vietnam War medals.

    Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt said the charge that Bush was in league with the group criticizing Kerry's war record "is absolutely and completely false. The Bush campaign has never and will never question John Kerry's service in Vietnam."

    Yet the White House refused to condemn the ad questioning Kerry's war record.

    "Let's not be selective here," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said in Crawford, Texas, where Bush is spending the next week. McClellan said Bush has been on the receiving end of more than $62 million in negative, false attacks by independent groups and "the president has condemned all of the ads," both those that criticize him and those that go after Kerry.

    In a campaign shadowed by the war on terrorism and in Iraq, Kerry's valorous combat experience is a cornerstone of his campaign. After using the Democratic National Convention to improve his poll ratings on national security, Kerry remained silent as the criticism led to growing indications
    much of it anecdotal, some in polling, party officials say
    that his gains were eroding.

    His medals are supported by Navy documents and the memories of all but one of the swift boat crewmates who served beneath Kerry, then a Navy lieutenant. The anti-Kerry group, funded by Republican donors, includes several veterans who say they witnessed Kerry's actions from nearby swift boats.

    One of his most vocal critics, Larry Thurlow, has disputed Kerry's Bronze Star-winning assertion that he came under fire during a mission in Viet Cong-controlled territory. But Thurlow's own military records contained several references to small arms fire that day, according to The Washington Post.

    Thurlow said in a statement Thursday that his records were based on Kerry's account.

    Knowing several news organizations, including the Post, were investigating the claims of anti-Kerry veterans, the Democratic campaign swung into action late Wednesday
    rewriting the candidate's speech to a firefighters' union overnight, flying two of his swift boat colleagues to Boston and producing a new campaign commercial, despite earlier plans to stay off the air until September.

    The 30-second ad features a former Green Beret saying Kerry saved his life under fire. "He risked his life to save mine," Jim Rassmann says.

    Kerry advisers said they had heard from several Democratic politicians that voters were starting to ask questions about the candidate's war record. The politicians urged him to fight back. Internally, there was an initial reluctance from senior advisers for Kerry to respond
    because they believed that Bush would condemn the critical ad, or that the allegations would blow over.

    As for the candidate himself, this was personal, aides said. He had heard the group was raising money for more ads, and was tired of his integrity being assaulted.

    "Thirty years ago, official Navy reports documented my service in Vietnam and awarded me the Silver Star, the Bronze Star and three Purple Hearts," Kerry said. "Thirty years ago, this was the plain truth. It still is. And I still carry the shrapnel in my leg from a wound in Vietnam."

    Kerry aides said they will maintain the offensive through surrogates, if not Kerry himself. Democrats welcomed the response.

    "Out of desperation, the Bush campaign has picked the wrong fight with the wrong veteran," said Jim Jordan, former Kerry campaign manager who now runs an outside group airing ads against Bush. "Today's the start of the mother of all backlashes."

    Kerry surrounded himself with friendly veterans and union workers to criticize the group airing the ad against him.

    "They're a front for the Bush campaign," Kerry said. "And the fact that the president won't denounce what they're up to tells you everything you need to know. He wants them to do his dirty work."

    There is no irrefutable evidence that the group is a front for Bush or that MoveOn.org is a front for Kerry, though there are at least slender ties between the groups' major donors and both campaigns.

    --=--=--=--=--

    First it's "take the high road" then days later it's "fight back."

    Told you they'd flip-flop. ;)
     
  9. FranchiseBlade

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    Sorry, but fighting back when there's a dirty attack ad aimed at a candidate doesn't equal abandoning the high road.

    Fighting back is called self defense. Abandoning the high road is what's done when you allow dirty attack ads, your website has more about the other candidate than it does about your own accomplishments, trying attack the candidate rather than talk about issues.
     

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