I am sorry, but he is not the starting 4 that we need. The kid is a solid contributor off the bench, but he cannot possibly hand with other premier fours in the league.
It is WAY to early to be making that statement. He is playing well, and is getting around 15pts and 8-10 boards a night lately. Those are not the numbers of a HEYOU. Kenny Thomas has been the MAN everywhere he has been. He hustles, he has a good outside shot, he has good post moves. Even Dream says that Kenny has OUTSTANDING footwork, and great post moves. I think Kenny Thomas can develop into a very nice starting 4. Think about it, Willis, OT, they got about the same pts and rebounds as Kenny when they were here. I say give this kid a chance. At the very least, put Bullard back in moth balls and let Thomas start. DaDakota [This message has been edited by DaDakota (edited February 17, 2000).]
I also think it's too early to know about Kenny Thomas. I think sometimes people look at the fact that he's shorter than many of the premier power forwards and decide he must not be the answer. (I'm not charging you with that UT Baller, but it does seem that some think that way.) I'd like for Thomas to be a legitimate 6'9" or 6'10", but there is far more involved than height. Look at the likes of Barkley, Rodman, or Fortson (all fantastic rebounders who are undersized for power forwards). I think Kenny Thomas can cause just as many, if not more, problems for the opposing power forward as he'll have with them. I'm not saying that Kenny Thomas is the answer to all of our power forward needs (he might simply be a great backup), but I think the Rockets are high on this kid. He seems to be one of the players that other teams have been inquiring about. And he also seems to be one of the players that the Rockets have put in that "key part of the future" category. "Right now, interest from other general managers has been in the players the Rockets consider building blocks and have little interest in moving -- Mobley, Thomas and Rogers" (Sporting News). I think a Kenny Thomas/Carlos Rogers tandem at power forward isn't bad. They both provide a lot of hustle. I don't think we have to have a star at every position. I'd rather see us focus our attention on obtaining a starting quality small forward. [This message has been edited by TraJ (edited February 17, 2000).]
I look at it this way: We have an outstanding trio of guards and our center for the future (albeit without an offense). We need a player on the frontline who could maybe be a 18/10 guy. In my mind Thomas is not this kind of player. I like what I have seen of him, but he is probably best suited as a backup 4.
I would have to agree with UT Baller. The Rockets need a dominant PF because our C of the future is not an offensive threat. Kenny Thomas is a great backup but I don't think he's the answer to the starting 4 spot. The Rockets need to pick one up through FA or through a trade.
UT Baller, You don't know what you are asking. Take a quick look now and in the past 5 years and tell exactly how many 18-10s you see. This 18-10 number is one of the most overused things i've encountered. The only 18-10s nowadays are superstars. What most people are trying to conjur up when they say 18-10 is visions of Thorpe, Willis, Oakley, Mason and, of course, Horace. Look at their historical stats. Willis had 2 18-10s, Thorpe had 2...that's it. Non others out of the entire careers of those guys. That is how hard it is to do an 18-10. And it is rarer and rarer. Look at the last 5 years...ANYONE...and list all the 18-10s that weren't superstars. Unless you are asking for a superstar (which would be nothing short of Brilliant), what you are really asking for is a 15-10. That can easily be Kenny Thomas. UT Baller, you strike me as one of the basketball minds that spends too much time playing fantasy bball and doesn't fully realize the impact of what you ask for in a team. Our PF just needs to be a solid defensive contributor who can beat most defenders one-on-one. We do not need someone who commands a double team. That would be great, but a guy can get a junkyard-dog like 15-10 for us by playing off of Francis/Mobley drives. That is Kenny Thomas. With that said...I will agree that the superstar PFs in this league are killing us. But, 18-10 is not going to happen. We just need good defense from the PF with self-sufficient offense. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited February 18, 2000).]
Kenny is a rookie, who is palying very well and will only get better. I do not have any trouble seeing Kenny become our future starting 4. That said, I would not mind the Rockets picking a veteran player who can play the 4 and 5, like Willis and OT did. This would establish a solid future three man rotation for the 4 and 5 positions.
UT Baller, I could just hear you in '93 - '95: "Kenny Smith is NOT our point guard of the future. We need someone that plays good defense and can get around 8 assists a game." "Vernon Maxwell is NOT our shooting guard of the future. He plays out of control and only shoots 40% from the field and 75% from the line." "Robert Horry is NOT our small forward of the future. He's not agressive enough...we need more than 10 points a game out of the 3-spot." So much for needing a prototypical player at every position, I guess.
Thank you TheFreak: I wish everyone would read that. I remember being a kid at age 10 doing fantasy stats for a made-up Notre Dame team that I do play-by-play for while shooting hoops by myself in the driveway. I had prototypical players at every position with two stars and three good role players. That team averaged 109 point per game. hehe
Kenny Thomas has played a lot of minutes this year. I keep waiting for him to do something that shows he can't or won't be a terrific contributor to an NBA championship team. I still haven't seen it. People, it is not easy to find frontcourt guys who can do the range of things Kenny seems able to do to help a flashy backcourt win games. He has shown the right skills, the right energy, and the right attitude. And he's shown enough variety of moves and shooting range to suggest that if our backcourt plays break down and the ball ends up in his hands with 5 seconds left on the clock, he can make something happen. If I were CD, I wouldn't trade Kenny except as part of a package for an unquestionable frontcourt star.
Man, what are we thinking? KT is a ROOKIE! He is putting up good numbers and has overshot my expectations when we drafted him. True, our future is in the backcourt if the roster stays as is, but Kenny IS and WILL BE a solid 4 in this league. Go to NBA.com and look at what the other fours are doing in the leaue. Outside of Duncan, Malone, Garnett and a choice few others, Kenny hangs tough! His numbers are good and he has logged some valuable minutes this year. Keep an eye on KT, he will only get better.
I looked at the stats for B Grant, M Taylor and K Thomas and really don't see great differences among the three on a per minute basis. Actually, Taylor is a terrible rebounder compared to KT and Grant. KT is just an inch shorter than Taylor and Grant and carries similar weight. The names of Grant and Taylor have been brought up before as players the Rockets need to get. If those are the best alternatives that the Rockets have, stick with Carlos and KT. Will and TheFreak in harmony! Mango [This message has been edited by Mango (edited February 18, 2000).]
At this point in his career, Thomas is solid, but not starter-material. Houston has Francis, Anderson, Mobley, and Cato. They need a premier power player to complement those four players. I do not think Thomas can consistently hold his own against other frontline players in the league: Divac, Duncan, BGrant, Garnett, Malone, McDyess, Mourning, O'Neal, SAR, Van Horn, Wallace, Webber.
Brian Grant and Kenny Thomas? I don't know about per-minute statistics, but Grant is a tougher defender, better rebounder, and (dare I say) more effective scorer than Thomas. Grant's play against Malone in last year's playoff proves he's a better player than what the statistics indicate.
Chicago never had a premier power player, did they? Detroit never had a premier power player, did they? The mindset of the center being the pinnacle of a team is fizzling out. No, they had solid contributors at that spot with a tenacious guard tandem or trio. Houston seems to be taking on the likeness of a guard oriented team now. Let it ride!
The posts by hepartner, thefreak, and mango have already eloquently stated my position... I just wanted to add that I like KT's offensive AWARENESS. I've only watched a few games, but he seems to know where he's supposed to be, and has an uncanny knack of ending up with the ball in an offense that isn't conducive to forwards... and rebounding over taller players. Also, he seems to know quite a bit about the game, and set high standards for himself if one gives his post-game interviews any credibility. Some have said that Kenny compares well with Elton Brand in terms of raw talent... that his initiative is the problem. While I don't think he's proven that he can be a dominant force in the league, he's already playing adequately for a starter, and showing flashes of brilliance on offense... all in his rookie year. [This message has been edited by haven (edited February 18, 2000).]
It sounds like some of you think we should have 5 all-stars starting. Get real. KT brings a lot of things that Othello did. That is energy and a willingness to learn. I have seen him progress as a rookie and think that he can be a starter someday. I have confidence in Rudy and CD. They know a lot more than all the rest of us combined.
He also brings things to the table that Othella never did, like the ability to read the defense and make the swift and concise pass out to the perimeter for an open jumper. ------------------ - hoopjunkie "when you come in da HOOD... things change."
You are right Hoopjunkie. Othello was a black hole. When the ball went into him, it never came out. KT also can shoot the outside shot that Othello couldn't.
