JVG's game plan on the 4th qtr

He actually said "doubling Nash". Anyway, as I said before, the greatest mis-match this team has is TMac and Yao. Let Yao staying around the paint really maximized his potential on bother side of the courts.

While staying under the basket, Yao can use his height and strength to alter shoots, block, grab rebounds (both offensive and defensive), create space and take shoots. At the same time, need not moving long distance quick really helps him staying away from meaningless faults. His Pick 'n Roll, mostly with T-Mac, around the top of the key is shaping up really well now!

 

Another "subtle" coaching tactic by JVG. I got VERY tired of seeing Amare dive down from the top of the key on those pick and rolls. Nash was having a mediocre night so it was smart to have Yao stay with Amare and not flash out on Nash on this PNRs. Amare really has a problem played straight up against Yao. Unless Amare gets the foul calls by just plowing into Yao (which he tried to do in the 3rd/4th quarters), then Amare is kind of rendered usless. He just cant get the shot over Yao and isnt as comfortable taking that medium range jumper to bring Yao out and create space in the lane.

Between that suble coaching move by JVG and using Ryan Bowen more at PF to counteract the Suns quickness, I would say JVG did some damn fine coaching in that game. Props to Gumby!

 

This was an obvious change that needed to be made. Even I saw we needed to keep Yao & Deke back on the Pick & Roll because they were in serious foul trouble. Nash didn't seem to be tearing it up from outside either. We were down 14 at one point in the 3rd. It was worth a shot to change.

 

"doubling Nash" is not "Yao doubling Nash".
JVG did well coaching in that game, especially on the 4th quarter.

im all for u.
hpe JVG to do it more often.

 

hope (sorry for my mis-typing)

 

Yao should play this position more often. His rebounds would go up and he would be less foul prone trying to chase down a guard.

 

I have never understood why we double with slow-footed Yao on the perimeter against top-notch, quick PG's (Nash, Parker, etc.) leaving the Stoudamire's and Duncan's rolling into the paint.

It seems like an invitation to get violated.

 

Maybe we won't complain about Yao's rbing floweress if that strategy is used more often.

 

Exactly. When I see Yao out there, I think I can actually see air currents moving around him. I'm surprised oposing guards can even keep their footing with all the air Yao displaces out there.

Hopefully JVG just learned something and we'll be able to see Yao stay a little closer to home now. I hate those crappy fouls he gets when he runs out too far.

 

This has been pointed out by many of the members of this BB. Yao is not suited skill wise to help trapping the other teams PG, just results in needless blocking fouls and expenditure of his limited energy. I am not going to give JVG credit for this for last night, he should have been listening to us and never had Yao out at the perimeter contesting jump shots and rushing back to defend the paint, picking up PGs coming off screens and pick and rolls and playing trapping defense. I hope this is a change in the basic team philosophy similar to letting Yao play with his fouls.

 

I watched the game agian on Tivo. Now let's not focus on the W for a moment. What I really like last night's game was that we were down by 14 in late 3rd. We didnt loose our cool after that, stuck to the game play, revolve around Tmac for offense and went for the boards hard. On the defensive, we put extra intensity to frustrate the Suns. When we were up in the 4th, the Suns were in the same situation as we did in the 3rd. They lost their minds, not only Amare but also their floor general Nash. They forced their shots, expected to outscore Houston to get back, while let loose on the defensive end. All our buckets came from well executed plays. This is the difference right there. We might not have as many talents as Suns or Sonics has, but we play TEAM ball. Now this we have to give JVG and CD some credit.

 

If anyone has a chat transcript, I was screaming for this all last night. And after it all, I discovered the whole +m -m thing and had no idea I had +m privelidges. Thanks to Uprising and Jeffster and Peud and R2K for all the great work and allowing me to go on my rants.

But back to the subject.

The Rockets imo, play average to great defense. They are inherently slow and not quick overall, but have some good pieces (like Wesley), but when they play as a harmonious JVG style defensive unit, they are pretty hard to beat.

JVG believes that each player should be like 1.5 players on defense, meaning help out whenever possible, help out your teammate. The big man shows on opposing PnR point guards so to slow down PG dribble penetration and allow the Rockets PG defender to catch up back to offensive PG.

If the defensive rotation is done properly, the showing big man can recover back in time to his man. If Yao(or the showing big man) cannot recover back in time, another Rocket is supposed to rotate over, and it's like a chain reaction.

But the goal is to cover the inside, don't allow the opposing team near the bucket for an "easy" shot.

Now one problem is that Yao has been slow on his shows on PnR, failing to stop PG dribble penetration and that just destroys the whole plan...but Yao has gotten better at that.

But when it came to the Suns there came 2 problems:

1) Amare was too quick in the 1st half. Yao was unable to show and get back to Amare, or the rotations would get there too late. This is not a problem that only the Rockets have. Amare is probably the quickest and most explosive PF in the NBA. By the time a man gets back to cover, Amare is already jumping towards the hoop or about to jump. This often results in a dunk, layup, foul, or and 1.

Exception. In the 4th quarter, T-Mac was the only successful man to rotate to Amare. After the Rockets' big man showed on the PnR with Nash, T-Mac ran over to the low block, stood in front of the circle and put his hands straight up. When Amare caught the ball, he took one step and figured he can't plow into T-Mac the way he does other players because T-Mac was in position for the charge call, and also, it's T-Mac, he probably would get the charge call. So Amare did the smart thing and went up for a short J and front rimmed it.

The JVG defense worked. If however, Amare were to pass it out and the ball would move around, Phoenix would have ended up with a 3pt attempt.

and this leads to problem #2

2) JVG defenses work for 90% of the teams in the NBA, but imo, not the Suns or Sonics.

Reasoning: let's take a look at last nights stats. Phoenix went 15-32 from the 3pt line...scoring 45pts on 32 attempts from 3. Some were on transition or semi-transition, which is a Rockets' achilis heal, but most were against the Rockets set D. When the Rockets set D is average, the Suns got wide open 3's, when the Rockets set D is good-great, the Suns got 3's with hands in their faces. Either way, it made no difference imo. The Suns shoot the 3 the same irregardless of whether it's wide open or a hand in their face...just my opinion, I need to watch the film to further study this.

Anyhow, the Suns scored 45 points on 15 3pt attempts.
From 2 pt range, the Suns were 21-55. That means they scored 42 points on 55 2-pt attempts!!!!!!!!!!

Holy smokes!

You see, my theory is that in a Rockets perfect Defense vs a Suns perfect Offense possession, you will end up with a 3 pt attempt by the Suns witha Rocket running to him.

Now while most teams can't continually beat you every possession that way, the SUns can. They had 4 3pt shooters on the floor! Nash, Q, JJohnson, JJackson, Waltah, and Barbarella (and Marion too when he plays) could all nail the 3. The are the #1 3pt shooting team in the whole NBA.

Not only that, but the Rockets don't always play perfect D, which means the Suns can not only burn you with an open 3, but also with a quick slashing Amare.


When the Suns, either through their own stupidity, or becaus of the Rockets' defensive changes, when the Suns shot 2pters: floaters, fade aways, inside jumpers...they shot 21-55!!! Now take away Amare's numbers and that's 12-32!!!!

So the numbers show that
a)the Suns are too good at spreading the floor and shooting the 3
b)the Suns are not accustomed to shooting the 2 in a set offense (you see transition baskets even make the numbers better than they really are...ex transition dunks and layups) and are bad at shooting the 2 relative to the 3, except for Amare

What does this mean?

I believe that you must stay at home with Amare. Let Steve Nash beat you by shooting, not passing. This is what Rudy T did to the Jazzholes PnR and the Rockets dominated the Jazzholes pre Barkly's ****** when they forced dirtyStockten to beat them by scoring instead of creating for Malonepansy on the PnR.

And when there is defensive rotation, rotate quick and only internally. I don't want to give up dunks either, but most of the the time, the Suns put 3 or 4 shooters around the ring, and the only inside player is Amare...and you must stay at home on him for stated reasons.

If you watch JVG's Knicks from 98-2001 era, they did not always show on PnR, because he believed that the team was defensively fast enough to deny dribble penetration withou big man help and that Marcus Camby was inside to erase penetrators.

In Houston, I understand the philosophy, and also because we are a slower team, help is needed, but man, let Yao develop into that inside D force...and we have Mutumbo too. I know Yao has problems...but he has it in him...he did it yesterday!

Putting Yao on an island is not always good Defensively, and so the rotations inside to block out offensive rebounders must be quick, if opposing guards are allowed to drive and Yao goes to meet them at the bucket.

But again, normally, I like the fact that the Rockets show...when they're on their A game defensive...most teams get shut the F down.

However, as JVG did yesterday in the 4th, they needed to change for a special team like the Suns.

 

Nice analysis Kim. I agree. I have to give credit to Van Gundy for making adjustments. He does a tremendous job on the defensive end making adjustments. At the beginning of this year, I was not sold on Van Gundy being willing to adjust but the more I see of him, the more I am convinced that he will adjust, even more so on the offensive end, which is really when this team turned around.

 

Give me a ****ing break. JVG should be listening to us? This idea that JVG has been a bonehead for making Yao "show" on the pick and roll, instead of laying back is the stupidest thing I've heard in a while. Fact is, the Pick and Roll is an extremely difficult play to defend, and there isn't one way to defend it. It takes adjustments depending on the opponents and their respective strength.

Shaq for example has been exposed in the past on pick and rolls because he wouldn't get out on the dibbler. Guys like Bibby or Billups have lit up the Lakers by getting open shots off the p/r. If Yao was like that, then he would have the same problems.

Usually Yao does a pretty good job on the p/r. The point isn't that he's supposed to "trap" the opposing guard. Yao is supposed to get out and prevent an open jumper, or slow down the dibbler while our defender can get back in position. As Yao is doing that, one of our other defenders is supposed to rotate over to the "roller" and prevent an easy look by him, until Yao can get back to his man. This is called TEAM DEFENSE.

But the problem with the Suns was that they have an explosive scorer in Amare who is absolutely lethal if he gets the ball in the lane. And they have so many shooters, if you rotate over to Amare, then he will just pass out for an open 3.

So JVG had to make an adjustment. For Yao to hang back on the p/r instead of coming out. Against different teams we'll have to make different adjustments. To say that JVG doesn't deserve credit for the adjustments that he makes (adjustments that completely work out) is absolutely idiotic.

 

IMO some of ya'all are guilty of selective perception. I only re-watched 1/2 of Q4 and the Suns ran a PnR on Yao at 11:15, 10:08, 9:48, 9:25, 9:15, 8:44 & 6:55. In all cases Yao stayed with Nash. There were 3 reasons I saw for the success. None of which was Yao not staying with Nash.

First, Yao didn't hard double Nash, he shaded him. By shading Nash instead of hard doubling, Yao was not trying to force Nash to give up the ball and thus Yao did not foul him on the perimeter. This is a very subtle but important point. Regardless of what was translated, Yao did not stop doubling Nash.

If you tape the games, watch and see that Yao sagged back into the paint but split the difference between Nash and Amare. There are important differences between hard doubling, shading and not doubling. I for one am glad JVG uses the first two and abstains from the last one.

Effectivley shading Nash is possible because of reasons 2 and 3. The other defender in the PnR was Mike James. And the Rocket at the 4 was Bowen.

 

Maybe what Yao was saying above he ment that he went from a HARD double to a shade.

 

Yao SHOULD NEVER BE OUT defending the opposing pg near the 3-pt line. I am not the only one who's been pointing this out since the beginning of this season. Yao is just too slow and we don't have an athletic pf to cover his ass. This will only wear him down quicker and have him picking up some stupid fouls. It's best for Yao to defend near the elbow. Let our pg to fight through the pick or dare them to shoot the long 2 or 3. It isn't a coincidence that Yao got much of his rebounds in the 4th quarter.

It's pathetic that it took JVG after 3 quarters to figure this out. And it wasn't the first time we played them or got burnt with this type of PnR.

 

I think the reason they stop doubling Nash was because they had James guarding him.

 

That's what I meant by defending near the elbow. Rather than trying to go around to cut off the penetration, Yao should stay in front of Nash at about 1 to 2 arm-lengths. This will slow down the opposing pg, protecting the paint and allowing others to help out on defense. I rather take our chances with their long 2 or 3 coming off a PnR, than having Yao picking up some stupid fouls or we got dunked on.