Any thoughts on this? I know we have the flopping thread, but I think this deserves separate consideration. It's part of the game, I suppose, and perfectly legal, since players get away with it all the time. It doesn't matter what the opponent does or how they play defense, they always get called for the foul. Honestly, it's just really annoying to me and I think the refs need to swallow their whistles more. This just came to mind because of last night. Derek and I were watching the Mavs game while waiting for the Rockets to come on (it's Waco so I get local Dallas games). The Pacers were actually leading toward the end and we thought we could watch the almighty Mavs drop a game. I swear to God, in the final couple minutes of regulation, Jason Terry and Nowitzki got to go to the charity stripe 3 separate times because they launched shots while jumping into the guy who was guarding them. It's basically the only reason they forced overtime and eventually won, because they initiated contact and drew fouls. Dirty? I think so. I actually don't even think it's fair. And then, when Tinsley drew a foul at the very end, the stupid Dallas commentator had the audacity to say, "And it looks like the Mavs are arguing that he JUMPED into the opponent to draw that foul..." We just stared and laughed in disbelief. It's like all the Mavericks took a page from Reggie Miller's book. LOL! Actors don't belong on a basketball court. I even watched the Rockets/Nuggets game EXTRA closely to check if those teams pull the same crap. I didn't see any of it at all. I'm dreading seeing the Mavs flop and cheat their way to the championship.
Pump faking and catching your opponent in the air is a legit strategy and is used by T-Mac all the time. However, if they're just flat out jumping into a set opponent and getting calls, then that's utter crap
I was about to start a thread about the dallas v pacers game. Seriously, last 2 minutes of regulation, dirk and terry flopped every single possesion and got the calls. The worst was that 3 pointer that Dirk got 'fouled' on. He pump fakes and the pacer buys it, but the pacer is pretty far away from dirk, like dirk has 3 feet of room, and dirk dives into him and still barely touches him with his non shooting elbow, and then does the patented dirk flailing legs flop and gets the call.
The amount of jelousy is amazing. Check the free throw stats on that game. The Mavs shot 4 or 6 free throws when Indiana was intentionaly fouling at the end of the game and the Pacer still shot more free throws. Indiana LIVED at the free throw line at the end of regulation. They shot 8 strait free throws and most were ticky tack fouls. The Mavs would have easily won in regulation if it was't for all the bs calls that went against the Mavs. You only see it as biased because you are rooting so heavily against the Mavs and just don't see it both ways. You said it yourself, Tinsley did the same thing(jumping into a Mavs player) and got the same call. Maybe Indiana should have done it more as the refs were calling it consistantly..
You should pull Dirk's manhood away from your mouth for a second and actually look at that foul call on the 3. O'neal didn't even come close to jumping into him and he ended up barely grazing Dirk's jersey and the Neanderthal flops like a whiny little tard and somehow gets the call.
Didn't see the game, but I hate this tactic. The defender is allowed his space; that includes his jumping space. If he goes straight up and the shooter intentionally leans into him, then there should be no foul. I understand if someone gets pump faked and is in the air leaning in to try to get the block, but if someone jumps straight up or nearly so, they are entitled to that space...kind of like the interpretation of the blocking foul...
This thread is less about foul tactics and more about how you hate that the Mavs won. As I recall, it wasn't a three and was called a 2 shot foul. However, I agree that there wasn't much contact and probably shouldn't have been called. But the point is that all you can think about is the calls that went against Indiana and not the calls that went against Dallas. You want so badly for Dallas to lose that ever bad call against Dallas is ligitimate and every bad call agains Indiana is so terrible that you actually start a thread about it.
Well it makes a lot of sense to get to the FT line. If your man jumps, you can either drive by him or fade away from him most likely getting blocked or just jump into him and get a foul call. Wouldn't you pick the easiest path to 2 points?
Well, exactly. And because its perfectly legal, players SHOULD do it. In fact, ALL players should do it. The Mavs are just infinitely smarter than everyone since they utilize this loophole seemingly every play. You know, I think the thing that pissed me off the most was the Mavs color guy up in arms over Tinsley drawing a foul that way...when his beloved team had just done it three times!
Yes it's ridiculous, and it's all because officials have given way too much ground to the offensive player in the NBA. This isn't just a mavs thing, every team does it. Yao especially has gotten called for fouls when guards bump into him and he goes straight up. I'm surprised more players don't use the tactic though because it works so well.
I watched the broadcast and the broadcaster(Mark Followill) wasn't up in arms whatsoever. He merely stated that Avery was upset because it appeared that Tinsley jumped into Buckner on that play and Buckner blocked the shot cleanly and they gave more free throws to Indiana. Indiana lived at the line for a long time near the end of regulation. It just wasn't enough.
lol on a side note about T-Mac's pump fake to draw a foul: Why does he even do it? He's going to miss the FT's anyways...might as well take your chances with the shot.
think of it as a player's reward for performing a good pump fake. its in the rules, so i dont see whats wrong with it. im pretty sure if tmac did it and hit 2 free throws to win a game, none of us would complain too much.
Hating the Mavs subjectively and then analyzing their style of play objectively are not mutually exclusive. In fact, it's a symbiotic relationship, with the facts of their suckage feeding the hatred. The Mavs are like a black hole of suck. Stop pretending to be Dirk Skywalker saving the Rebel Mavliance from the Evil Clutch City Empire and Darth Van Gundy. Not even Yoda and the Wookie, I mean Avery Johnson and Josh Howard, can save you from our reaches!!!
I remember when . . . if the offenses INITIATED CONTACT it was a Charging Call The good ole days Rocket River
i only hate it when the offensive player changes the way he usually shoots a jumpshot in order to get a foul call. like kobe for example, we know he usually FADES when he shoots, but when he gets a defender in the air, she lean FORWARD to initiate the contact. Jason Terry does this a lot too. when the defender isnt even infront him and they are to his right, he LEANS the the right to initiate the contact. Referees should be able to tell if the player is trying to shoot or just force a fould call.
On the perimeter, I don't have a big problem with it except in extreme cases like you just described. However, in the post, it should be a no-call at best. A lot of times you will see the offensive player jump into the defender at the end of the drive, use that to create space or get their balance, AND get the foul call. If anyone created a foul there, it was the player with the ball. If it was called correctly, you would see more players having to learn how to use floaters, etc in the lane and/or use the stop and pop that Calvin Murphy was such a fan of. The NBA is so prejudiced towards smaller players it's amazing sometimes.
Bookit, I don't really go overboard with some here on the Mavs and Jazz hate. But the Mavs do seem like they practice flopping and use it much more than the average. AND I would not be surprised that a Larry Bird run team would also be good at this kinda thing. Watched a PBS special years ago where Red Auerbach was teaching the Celtics how to fall on their ass and slide back from very little contact in order to draw a charge. A lot of our frustration here is due to the refs seeming to regularly call things one way for some teams, and then not sure if it is a negative JVG/positive Cuban etc effect, but Yao gets hacked HARD, 2-3 TIMES more than he gets calls. Tmac gets hammered regularly going to the rack with no call which is why I say he stopped driving last year. Too many hard hits. Most perimeter defenders on most teams get called for ticky tacky fouls on wing players, and then Farmar, Bowen and others have their hands all over Tmac and others, climb on their backs and there are no calls. Rafer hardly ever gets a call going to the rim, Hayes - who is in essence a rookie hardly ever gets a call putting a ORB back up and getting hammered on both sides. We have been called for 40 more fouls than our opponents and shot 111 fewer FT's. Now I know we shoot a lot of 3's, but when Tmac is being hounded by double teams with hands all over him trying to strip the ball, and we get to the 4th quarter and the announcers tell you his defender just received his 1st foul - well I then realize that Tmac does not get treated like Dirk at all. I saw a jersy being pulled from behind the other night - jersy extended out, arm extended out hanging on to it - no call. Now who just got called for two flagrants in a game against the Jazz? Jerry Stackhouse? or maybe it was two separate games - but the guy needs a phone call from Stu Jackson. Our first Mavs game at TC this year - Dirk was arguing an out of bounds call for like a minute - at the same time when the refs were calling techs on everyone else in the league for whining ONCE. I was screaming at the refs to give him a T - I think they finally did but they let him go on forever!!! I don't think Kobe would be given that much leeway. Phil Jackson got his double T and ejection last game for much less than Dirk did. It is not that it never happens elsewhere but the Mavs seem to do all of it much more often and then have Cuban working the refs to get better calls as much as they can. Kinda then ironic to hear them complain about DWade in the championship series but then they like to complain. If that is part of the game, then lets take a collection and mail checks to Stu Jackson on a regular basis, cause I like to win championships.
