1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Judge bars government from seeking death penalty against Zacarias Moussaoui

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by RocketMan Tex, Oct 2, 2003.

  1. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    18,452
    Likes Received:
    119
    CNN is reporting that a judge has barred the government from seeking the death penalty against Zacarias Moussaoui in connection with the 9/11 terror attacks. No "whys", "wherefores" nor any details as of yet, but I sure would like to see them.
     
  2. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2003
    Messages:
    3,336
    Likes Received:
    1
    I'm curious about this, too.

    I'm encouraged, though, by the first signs of civility our government has shown in the vaunted War on Terror.
     
  3. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    36,425
    Likes Received:
    9,373
    GV, if this scumbag is found guilty of being one of the plotters of 9/11, would you not wish the death penalty on him? I'm not trying to be smart, just curious.
     
  4. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2002
    Messages:
    15,630
    Likes Received:
    6,591
    He can look forward to a life in solitary confinement in a federal prison. He will need to be isolated or else he will surely be targeted by other inmates eager to inflict a little Texas Justice. Enjoy those 50 years in the hole, Zac!
     
  5. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    18,452
    Likes Received:
    119
    Here is the story:

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/02/moussaoui.sanctions/index.html

    Judge sanctions prosecution in Moussaoui case
    Thursday, October 2, 2003 Posted: 2:24 PM EDT (1824 GMT)

    (CNN) -- A federal judge on Thursday banned the government from presenting evidence that the only person in the United States indicted in connection with September 11 had advance knowledge or participated in the attacks.

    The sanction came after the prosecution refused to follow her earlier order to produce defense witnesses.

    Issuing sanctions in the legal standoff, U.S. District Judge Leonie Brinkema also struck the death penalty from the indictment against Zacarias Moussaoui, whose trial has been pending for 21 months in the Eastern District of Virginia, in Alexandria.

    Moussaoui was jailed on an immigration violation a month before September 11. He had filed a motion to question Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who is considered the mastermind of the September 11 attacks; his key planner, Ramzi Binalshibh; and Mustafa Ahmed al-Hawsawi, a suspected paymaster for al Qaeda.

    The prosecutors opposed letting Moussaoui depose detainees and defied Brinkema's order to make them available, saying such actions would disrupt their interrogations and subvert the president's constitutional powers as commander-in-chief to conduct the war on terrorism.

    The sanctions were not as serious as dismissing the whole indictment, but the ruling was a blow to the government's case.

    Brinkema stayed her order pending an appeals court review.

    The judge had said the videotaped depositions from the three detainees were necessary for Moussaoui to have a fair trial, in part because classified summaries of their testimony indicate that they could exonerate Moussaoui of the most serious charges against him -- that he had a role in the September 11 conspiracy, which he denies -- or could spare him the death penalty.

    The government's refusal of orders to produce the witnesses forced the judge to impose Thursday's sanctions.

    Indicted in the only U.S. case arising from the September 11 attacks, Moussaoui has denied charges that he conspired with the hijackers who carried out the plot.

    Moussaoui, 35, a French citizen of Moroccan descent, acknowledges belonging to al Qaeda and intending to participate in a post-September 11 plot outside the United States.

    Prosecutors have alleged in closed court hearings that Moussaoui, who attended two flight schools in the United States in 2001 but failed to obtain a pilot's license, wanted to crash a jetliner into the White House.
     
  6. Troy McClure

    Troy McClure Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2003
    Messages:
    655
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am against the death penalty. But since most are not and we still use it (frequently , even for mentally ill people) why would it not be used on a man involved in the murder of 3,000 innocent people ?
     
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,885
    Likes Received:
    41,410
    FWIW, the accounts I have read about the trial indicate that it is a farce, which is why the judge is having such a hard time. Moussaoui, who is representing himself, is legally sane, but practically not, as he tends to make bizarre rambling motions scribbled onto notebook paper as his defense.

    The theory, propounded in articles that I have read (a New Yorker one from some time ago), and has allegedly been corroborated by captured AlQ guys, is that Moussaoui wanted to be part of AlQ and the hijackings but wasn't allowed to be b/c AlQ thought he was nuts and didn't want anything to do with him.
     
  8. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2003
    Messages:
    3,336
    Likes Received:
    1
    Amen to that. That's justice enough for me!
     
  9. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2003
    Messages:
    3,336
    Likes Received:
    1
    I don't wish death on anyone.

    I hope this guy rots in prison the rest of his miserable life, but taking his life isn't the answer to any rational question.
     
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,885
    Likes Received:
    41,410
    Editing my statement, he is technically represented by 2 lawyers as the judge wouldn't let him represent himself, but he wouldn't cooperate with them in his defense until recently.
     
  11. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    18,452
    Likes Received:
    119
    Now that is a Mel Brooks/Farrelly Brothers movie just itching to be made!!!:D :D :D :D

    If a terrorist organization full of nuts like Al Qaeda thinks you are nuts, you truly must be nutsy-parker with a capital N!
     
  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,885
    Likes Received:
    41,410
    Here is the scoop, the long running dispute is that the Gov't is presenting evidence against Moussaoui supposedly from Ramsi Binshalibh, one of the Al Q captives. Moussaoui wants to cross examine him , as is guaranteed by the 6th Amendment in criminal trials, but the Gov't refuses to produce him. So the judge sanctioned the prosecution for it.


    http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/02/moussaoui.sanctions/index.html
     
  13. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2003
    Messages:
    3,336
    Likes Received:
    1
    Wow, I hadn't heard that. Weird stuff. Glad the judge is keeping justice blind and making everybody play by the same rules. Good to see.
     
  14. bnb

    bnb Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    6,992
    Likes Received:
    316
    I'll second that.

    Especially the bolded bit.
     
  15. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,885
    Likes Received:
    41,410
    From slate:

     
  16. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2003
    Messages:
    3,336
    Likes Received:
    1
    Great link, Sam Fisher. Excellent background.

    I'm not defending all the judge's actions -- just the one that forced the prosecution to produce a witness.

    I'm curious why this trial isn't getting more media attention? I mean, this is a pretty big deal.
     
  17. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,087
    Likes Received:
    3,605
    If my understanding is correct...

    The Judge is trying to protect the trial. It looks to me like Moussai sp? has a good chance on appeal. The government is not allowing him to cross examine a potentially helpful witness, even though the Judge ordered it.

    It is basically prosecutorial extreme misbehavior. The prosecutors, and perhaps Ashcroft himself should be held in contempt and incarcerated over this till the matter is resolved.

    This is another poster child case as to why Ashcroft and Bush don't believe in the Constitution and are menaces to our system of government.

    I know everything changed on 911, but until the Constitution is changed you still have the right to trial by jury and to bring forward witnesses who are in your favor. Sorry Ashcroft.
     
  18. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,087
    Likes Received:
    3,605
    Here's some more explanation. It is really a travesty that Ashcroft just doesn't want to follow the Constitution regrading criminals, even those accused of terrorism. As we have seen they are using this type of concept on non-terrorists.
    ****

    Advertisement






    Real Estate

    Spotlight on...
    Golf Properties
    Live right on the green......


    Hamptons Homes
    Montauk, Easthampton, more...



    • Search Other Areas






    In Setback to U.S., Judge Refuses to Drop Moussaoui Case
    By KIRK SEMPLE

    Published: October 2, 2003



    ARTICLE TOOLS


    E-Mail This Article
    Printer-Friendly Format
    Most E-Mailed Articles
    Reprints & Permissions

















    TIMES NEWS TRACKER



    Topics
    Alerts

    Moussaoui, Zacarias




    Decisions and Verdicts




    Justice Department








    federal judge handed the United States government a huge setback today by ruling that prosecutors can not make any allegations that Zacarias Moussaoui was linked to the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, 2001.

    The judge, Leonie M. Brinkema of Federal District Court in Alexandria, Va., also barred the government from seeking the death penalty for Mr. Moussaoui.

    Judge Brinkema was responding to the government's refusal to obey her order to allow the defense to have access to captured members of Al Qaeda.

    "It would simply be unfair to require Moussaoui to defend against such prejudicial accusations while being denied the ability to present testimony from witnesses who could assist him in contradicting those accusations," the judge said in her opinion.

    Mr. Moussaoui is accused of participating in a broad conspiracy to commit terrorism against the United States, including the Sept. 11 attacks. He is the only person charged in an American court with conspiring in the terrorist attacks. The Justice Department has said that the government could not produce captured Qaeda witnesses, even those who might have helped direct Mr. Moussaoui's actions, because of the possible public disclosure of classified information.

    Judge Brinkema said her decision today would not take effect until the government has had a chance to appeal, which the government was certain to do quickly. The next stop could be Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit, in Richmond, Va.

    Paul J. McNulty, the United States Attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, said prosecutors were studying the opinion "to determine how best to proceed." An appeal to the Fourth Circuit was a possibility, as was a Justice Department move to transfer the case to a military tribunal, another option that has been considered.

    Mr. McNulty said "the interests of justice" required that the government be allowed to prove the full scope of the conspiracy. "We continue to believe that the Constitution does not require, and national security will not permit, the government to allow Moussaoui, an avowed terrorist, to have direct access to his terrorist confederates who have been detained abroad as enemy combatants," Mr. McNulty said.

    But court-appointed lawyers for Mr. Moussaoui argued, and the judge agreed, that the prisoners Mr. McNulty referred to might be able to offer testimony showing that the defendant had no part in the conspiracy.

    The judge's ruling came as a surprise to both the prosecution and the defense because both sides had been anticipating that the judge would dismiss the indictment.

    The Justice Department announced last week that it would not object if Judge Brinkema dismissed the indictment. Prosecutors had said that throwing out the charges would be the quickest route to intervention by an appellate court on the witness-access issue. But legal analysts say that in light of today's ruling, prosecutors might have a harder time persuading an appeals court to overrule Judge Brinkema on the witnesses issue.

    "The unprecedented investment of both human and material resources in this case mandates the careful consideration of some sanction other than dismissal," the judge said. "Finding that this case can be resolved in an open and public forum, the court concludes that the interests of justice would not be well served by dismissal."

    link
     
  19. Murdock

    Murdock Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    2
    Okay, Let me get this straight.. is this Moussaoui an American Citizen?
     
  20. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 1999
    Messages:
    8,507
    Likes Received:
    181
    Exactly. No viable reason this guy gets ANY Constitutional protection. In fact, long standing doctrine (see Verdugo-Urquidez, Kerr-Frisbee Doctrine, Achille Lauro hijackers -don't remember the court case) says they DON'T get these protections when they are not US citizens.
     

Share This Page