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Jose Altuve is the best Astro ever

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by EddieWasSnubbed, Oct 19, 2019.

  1. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Contributing Member
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    JOSE ALTUVE
     
  2. Marshall Bryant

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    They never forgave him for leaving.
     
  3. sealclubber1016

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    Three times, he got caught twice on league administered drug tests, along with the earlier list he appeared on.

    I largely agree with the hypocrisy in regards to Bonds, Clemens and Schilling, but Manny didn't just fail a drug test, he majestically failed them beyond any reasonable doubt to the point you can legitimately question if he ever played an inning clean.
     
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  4. vince

    vince Member

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    When I said longevity, I mean that’s where Altuve is still only into his 12th years of his career. Biggio played over 20 seasons and Bagwell was the most prolific HR hitter in Astros history with his game was as a #3 hitter.

    Altuve very well could sustain his level of play for another 5-8 years and the numbers won’t be much different from Biggio’s. But sustained excellence is a privilege of health and ability staying honed in; and likewise should be appreciated as it happens.

    Bagwell’s shoulder just didn’t hold up and Bagwell was done within 1 1/2 season of when that should went bum on him. It was such a fast decline, it was hard to fathom. Bagwell should and could have gotten to 600 plus HR if not for the injury.

    I think there are 4 hitters that defined their eras. José Cruz, Bagwell, Biggio, and Altuve. When I was a child in the 80’s, we all wanted to be like Cruz!!!

    And I agree it’s a great era to be an Astros fan. Gone are the low expectations yesteryears of just reaching the playoffs.
     
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  5. Marshall Bryant

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    I am just a little older and would put Cedeno on that list. As a 21 and 22 year old [72 & 73], he hit an OPS+ of 162 and 152. He was the Tatis of his day except at CF.
     
    #325 Marshall Bryant, Jul 6, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
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  6. mightybosstone

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    It didn't help Clemens or Ramirez, though.
     
  7. HeyBudLetsParty

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    Writers who never played the game are somehow allowed to keep them out of the hall though. At this point there should just be a separate wing for steroid era players. Can’t tell the history of the game without talking about Bonds, The Rocket, Manny being Manny. Hall should mean so much but the baseball journalists are a special kinda dumb.
     
  8. Marshall Bryant

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    Don't shoot the messenger, but longevity is a factor. At this point, he should be a lock. But his chances improve if he has 5 more years of mediocre play than he has now. Sustained excellence makes it more difficult to keep him out, but I have little doubt the NY Sports media will try.
     
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  9. Marshall Bryant

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    They'd still keep out McGuire though.
     
  10. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com
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    I wanted to be Dickie Thon pre head injury.
     
    #330 rockbox, Jul 6, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2022
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  11. Tuckmose

    Tuckmose Member

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    Personally, I don't think either Manny or A-Rod belong in the hall. I agree with you that Manny never played a clean inning professionally in his life, and A-Roid's been juicy since high school. Ortiz IMO wasn't that far behind. Going from 20 HR at 26 to 54 at age 30 while putting on 30 pounds of solid muscle? Declining for a decade only to transform magically into baseball's best hitter at age 40, where have we seen this before? All that for a career that resembles Lance Berkman more than Edgar Martinez?

    Give me a break.

    Back to Jose though, methinks before 2019, he could get in on 50-55 WAR, now he needs at least 60+. Or at least four more seasons of hitting .275 with 30 HR with mediocre defense at 2B, which he's been doing since 2019. His real weakness (outside of being the most hated player in baseball for a few years) is that while his prime years were really good, he only had two of them (2016 and 2017).
     
  12. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    I would say there are more than 4.

    I like using OPS+ for historical comparisons because it factors in home field and peer performance.

    30 HR in the Astrodome was not the same as Minute Maid

    30 HR in 1980 is not the same as 30 HR in 1995 which is not the same as 2020.

    And I define an era as 5+ years of top production. Top production is 125 OPS+ or better.

    So for my money:

    Jimmy Wynn from mid 60s- early 70s

    Bob Watson from early 70s to late 70s

    Cesar Cedeno in the 70s

    Jose Cruz mid 70s - mid 80s

    Glenn Davis in mid 89s - 90

    Bagwell 90s and first half of 2000s

    Biggio 90s ( never hit 25% above avg after 1998)

    Berkman 2000s

    Altuve 2014 - current
     
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  13. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    I forgot Springer 2014-2020.
     
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  14. msn

    msn Member

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    And Yordan will soon be an era all his own.
     
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  15. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    What do you consider prime years?

    Outside of 2020 ( which can be dismissed for a few reasons) Altuve has been 25% or more above league average 7 years in a row

    2022 is the 8th.

    Biggio only did it 5 times.
     
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  16. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Only Bagwell's 94 season eclipses what Yordan is doing. Bagwell and Berkman both had other seasons on par with Yordan, but in a more offense heavy era.
     
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  17. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com
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    The 94 season was pretty amazing. That being said, Bags never scared the bejesus out of opposing teams like Alvarez is doing this year. I'm talking Bonds, Pujols, Trout level fear.
     
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  18. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    When has Ortiz ever had 30 pounds of solid muscle?
     
  19. Tuckmose

    Tuckmose Member

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    “Peak” years for me are years where he contended for the MVP, +7 WAR.
     
  20. IdStrosfan

    IdStrosfan Member

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    By that thinking 99% of all players will never have a peak.

    A WAR of 7 or above has only happened 22 times in Astros/ Colt 45s history.

    16 times by pisition players and 6 times by pitchers ( baseball reference)

    By your rationale Jeff Bagwell is the only player in their history to have a peak of over 2 years.

    Pretty tough requirements.
     

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