1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

John Wall informs the Rockets he wants to return to play

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by H. Christopher, Nov 27, 2021.

  1. BigggReddd

    BigggReddd Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
    Messages:
    4,424
    Likes Received:
    4,851
    yeah like clapping, cheerleading, handing out towels, refilling water bottles....
     
    DeBeards likes this.
  2. fattz

    fattz Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    Messages:
    4,105
    Likes Received:
    3,380
    What if Wall is doing what he is told because Porter is being traded as filler to a larger deal.
     
  3. CHAMPBOY

    CHAMPBOY Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Messages:
    678
    Likes Received:
    839
    I thought we just wanted to play but Wall wants to call the shots. It would be wild to see:

    Porter
    Green
    Gordon
    Wall
    Wood

    All 5 of those guys can score 20 points a night, and have the shooters: Brooks and Matthews and Sengun and Martin off the Bench. This would be a FUN TEAM. However, Wall still wants to be the PG? I wonder if Wall and Porter daily relationship has friction?
     
  4. groovemachine

    groovemachine Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,280
    Likes Received:
    1,454
    So … can’t the team just activate him and play him as a 6th man anyway? If he refuses to play that’ll save the team millions in salary
     
  5. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    15,035
    Likes Received:
    10,873
    Wall and a pick for Kyrie would be great but Tilman is regressive and Kyrie is a champion + progressive. Maybe we can find a non champion like Suns with Chris Paul.

    To this day I can't believe CP3 showed up out of shape, demotivated and declining in his second season after we took the warriors to 7.

    Yet he increased his whining about everything and anyone. So unlike him, but I partially understood why Harden was so disappointing. He just needs a Batman against the top teams and that dude didn't show up in the next playoffs.
     
    BigShasta likes this.
  6. DatRocketFan

    DatRocketFan Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2015
    Messages:
    5,641
    Likes Received:
    7,039
    Delusional if u think the Nets r gonna trade for wall. Harden left the Rockets to avoid wall, makes no sense especially walls hefty ass contract, and lack of any mins so far This season
     
  7. DeBeards

    DeBeards Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2019
    Messages:
    4,999
    Likes Received:
    9,580
  8. eliefor3

    eliefor3 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2019
    Messages:
    1,656
    Likes Received:
    2,314
    Tired of these athletes thinking everyone has to bend to their will. Rockets did that with harden and what did it get them? Im Glad Texans and rockets are not giving in now
     
  9. a time to chill

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    681
    Likes Received:
    1,287


    Whew! Move along everybody. Nothing more to see here.
     
    cmoak1982 and Mathloom like this.
  10. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    15,035
    Likes Received:
    10,873
    Hahaha Harden doesn't leave to avoid anyone. Harden left when the owner obviously wanted to win a title BEFORE spending LT - like the owners of the teams his competitors play on.

    I don't think they have a problem anymore, Wall was annoyed when harden was checked out in protest. It wasn't personal I'm sure he understands by now (after losing so heavily) that harden was right, this owner was not going to spend more and the roster got old.
     
  11. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    67,214
    Likes Received:
    25,932
    Are you seriously cherry picking positive takes only for Jalen Green?

    Dude, I saw it as following:

    1.CP3 was still dealing with the after effects of that hammy injury well into the 2nd season.
    Declining yes but calling it demotivated was a stretch, Morey cut his friend Melo, breh.

    2. Whining about everything? Again over the top. Like Russ, he was mad at the front office about how they pampered Harden and his disappearance to the strip clubs.

    Everyone?
    He was only mad at Harden for on court issues as well AFAIK.

    So unbecoming of him? Dude was the 2nd option and Players Union president, of course he is more vocal about things, sheesh.

    Again, I am all for critiquing him for his performance but piling up on him on every frontier, just wow.
     
    #191 daywalker02, Nov 29, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
    xtruroyaltyx likes this.
  12. jdjd

    jdjd Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    69
    John Wall's contract + his attitude is REALLY making him UNtradeable.
     
  13. Dobbizzle

    Dobbizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2021
    Messages:
    1,706
    Likes Received:
    2,673
    I'm definitely not in the majority opinion here. Articles basically saying "Wall wanted opportunity to compete for a role in the team" which is basically how all sports work and have since forever, and somehow that makes him the bad guy? Nah, that's bullshit. Dude is a basketball player who wants to play basketball, is the best player on our roster and gets paid the most, and y'all think he's the bad guy for not wanting them to end his career by sitting him and not letting him play? How do they expect him to take a buyout to play elsewhere if they're treating him like he can't play at all? It's nonsense, and it's actually management who are in the wrong here as far as I can see.
     
    Jayzers_100 likes this.
  14. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    91,839
    Likes Received:
    108,989
    Wow, all the Rockets Legends™ in the replies!
    Wall, Cousins, Faried, Mason Jones (LOL), Tucker

    Screw ‘em!
    [​IMG]

    John agreed to the “plan”, now he wants to dictate the terms of his return. You are entitled to nothing!
     
  15. Dobbizzle

    Dobbizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2021
    Messages:
    1,706
    Likes Received:
    2,673
    Seems like the players are definitely on Wall's side. More "great" reputation building for the Rockets then, seems Stone is more like Morey than I originally thought. They're both very good at convincing the fanbase that treating human beings like assets and tools is the way to go. Imagine thinking that it's a normal and good situation to not even allow your highest paid players the opportunity to earn a place on a sports team with competitive play against their peers? And people think Stone is some kind of genius or something, wow. I remember when sports teams were ran according to who plays well and earns their spots, I'd hoped we'd gotten to the end of inflexible, ideologically ran bullshit post-Morey.
     
  16. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    17,548
    Likes Received:
    16,445
    Correct me if I'm wrong but the predicament that Wall's in right now was agreed upon by both parties at the beginning of the season, no? If that's true then no one should feel sorry for Wall because if he agreed to sit out until Stone can find a trade then John was just protecting his own ass. There's nothing wrong with that but it's a bit hypocritical to start a #FreeWall movement and ask to play when you yourself agreed with the GM and the organization that you're willing to sit out, whatever the reason may be.

    Now is he a capable NBA player? Yes. Should he get a chance to play? Sure. Does it have to be in Houston? Not necessarily. He was doing the smart thing by sitting out and ensuring that he'll get paid in full for this season and next year's player option. If he's sweating now then all he has to do is work on a buy out for this year and make himself a free agent. Up until now, that wasn't a possibility because he knows he won't sniff $90 million in contractual dollars again for the foreseeable future.
     
    beardsanity713 and jch1911 like this.
  17. TriumVirate

    TriumVirate Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,344
    Likes Received:
    1,286
    Don't know if this has been posted already, but here's an article by Iko and Hollinger.

    https://theathletic.com/2983900/202...ere-be-significant-change-in-roster-rotation/

    Before the start of NBA training camp, John Wall was looking to be traded from the Rockets, and the two sides agreed that he would not play while the franchise sought out a trade partner.

    Nineteen games into the season, Wall has had a change of heart. He’s informed the Rockets he wants to play again. It would be his first action of the year after averaging 20.6 points, 6.9 assists and 3.2 rebounds with the Rockets last season.

    Whether Wall immediately starts or is more serviceable as a player off the bench, however, is still to be determined. Is Wall’s presence needed?

    The Athletic’s Kelly Iko and John Hollinger got together to discuss Wall and the dynamic he would bring to the team.

    Kelly Iko: Well, that didn’t take very long, John.

    John Wall wants to play — and start — for the Rockets, according to our own Shams Charania. Houston, on the other hand, believes that the only way he can return right now is if he were to come off the bench.

    What’s your initial reaction to all of this? The last time we talked, it was about Wall’s future as a Rocket, the $94 million remaining on his contract and the difficulties a move may be.

    John Hollinger: Well, taking a step back, it seems obvious that Wall’s only pathway out of Houston involves him playing some games and re-establishing his value. As we discussed the last time we went through this, the odds of finding a taker for a $94 million deal, with a year to go after this one, were infinitesimally small unless the Rockets added draft picks, which they have no reason to do.

    As for Wall, the discussion of him starting versus coming off the bench seems an unusual one to me. The Rockets’ guards have been uniformly atrocious this year, and it’s bleeding into the rest of the player development they hoped would happen this season. The offense just can’t function without a real point guard, and it leaves players like Jalen Green and Alperen Sengun trying to do stuff they can’t do.

    Houston is 29th in the league in offensive efficiency and has the league’s highest turnover rate; the Rockets were 30th until they shot 99 percent from 3 in Sunday’s win over Charlotte. Houston hoped Kevin Porter Jr. could be good enough on the ball that they wouldn’t miss Wall, but he’s shooting 37 percent and averaging 6.4 turnovers per 100 possessions. Jalen Green hasn’t been any better. D.J. Augustin is 34 and probably on the 18th hole.

    So, like … if Wall is in any condition to play real basketball at all, surely he’s in good enough condition to start.

    On the other hand, I don’t understand the wider context of this. Teams aren’t going to view Wall any differently if he isn’t starting, and I presume Wall’s ultimate end-game is still to generate a trade. And from the Rockets’ end, I don’t think Wall will be so good that they will win “too much” and screw up their lottery pick, especially with 16 losses already banked, and I don’t think Kevin Porter is such a precious prospect that they have to protect his starting job. I guess I’m just confused all around.

    Iko: If you were going to make a pros-and-cons list of reintegrating Wall, the point you bring up about their offensive efficiency is probably the biggest reason why it makes some sense. This two-game winning streak aside, as exciting and positive as it’s been for head coach Stephen Silas and the young roster, shouldn’t mask over the biggest issue for this team: organization.

    It’s difficult going through a rebuild and also having to develop a backcourt, where one player (Porter) is still learning the point guard position. The Rockets’ offense has looked awkward more times than it hasn’t, with players in the wrong spots, poor spacing and, as a result, poor execution. And like you said, Augustin hasn’t really added much to their second unit.

    Wall would certainly bring some organization and order to a young group that has shown flashes of viability — but only flashes. For an offense-oriented guy like Silas, do you see the merit in bringing Wall back to the forefront from a pure playmaking perspective?

    Hollinger: Yes! Absolutely! For starters, I think it would make life a lot easier for Jalen Green. Few players in history create more 3s for teammates than Wall, and generating some easier catch-and-shoot looks for Green might go a long way toward creating some semblance of shot quality in his repertoire. (The other low-key thing he could do is boost Eric Gordon’s trade value by getting him some easier 3-point looks.)

    The other reason is that Houston’s bigs have to create almost everything on their own right now. You could see in the Charlotte game, when Christian Wood was able to slip some screens and get a couple of easy dunks, how much easier the game could be for him and Alperen Sengun if less of their offense was self-created. For that matter, it might be easier to actually play Usman Garuba in a game (and get a look at his corner 3, something he shot often in Spain) if the Rockets didn’t require as much shot creation from non-guards.

    Iko: You’re right about Wood. Last season, his production before his nasty ankle injury was one of Houston’s few bright spots. There was some slip between Wood playing with James Harden and Wall, but that’s understandable. This season, it certainly looks like he’s taking more onus on himself to make things work for Houston. At times, it looks awkward because of his play style, but such is the life of a losing, rebuilding team.

    But If that’s the case — and you want Wall starting — what would Houston’s ideal starting lineup look like? Spacing is the name of the game today, and we already know the Wood-Daniel Theis combo should be placed somewhere deep, deep under the sea.

    Hollinger: I never totally understood the Theis thing. The only thing I can think of was that they had started down that road before drafting Sengun and Garuba, because now they have four centers and can only realistically play two at a time.

    But I digress. One of Houston’s issues is that they have a ton of energy at the forward positions but not much shooting. Guys like Jae’Sean Tate, K.J. Martin and David Nwaba are all winning players in the right situation, but there has to be a ton of shooting around them. In Houston there is … not a ton of shooting.

    Obviously, that makes Gordon a crucial component here — and, to a lesser extent, Garrison Mathews (who started on Saturday). I think a logical mindset would be to limit themselves to one of Tate and Martin on the floor at any given time as their four and start Mathews at the three next to Green and Wall. Then they could bring Gordon off the bench with the second group and have him as a stabilizer next to Porter, which has been his role forever anyway. If Danuel House Jr. remembers how to play basketball at some point, he could be part of this second group, too; Houston could really use another wing with some legit size. Otherwise, I guess it’s Armoni Brooks.

    The thing is, I’m not even saying this stuff so the Rockets can win games; that’s totally secondary at this point. They just need their key young players to grow and develop in a realistic offensive environment, and right now, they don’t really have that.
     
    RoadWarrior and jch1911 like this.
  18. TriumVirate

    TriumVirate Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,344
    Likes Received:
    1,286
    Iko: So if I understand you correctly, you’re pushing Porter to the bench. That’s something.

    If you’re Houston, how do you see that situation? Wall playing big minutes at point takes away from Porter’s time there, and they believe in him. His performance against LaMelo Ball this weekend showed real signs of a guy who can be a reliable playmaker, even if you have to grow through the turnovers.

    I guess how I see it is Porter is here right now. The Rockets don’t really have another long-term option at point guard, and this upcoming draft class — headlined by Paolo Banchero and Chet Holmgren — are frontcourt guys. Unless there’s a young point guard out there that Houston can trade for, I think they almost have to bank on Porter. Am I off?

    Hollinger: I guess I see it this way: Moving Porter from a role he can’t handle into one where he still plays isn’t exactly the end of the world. And as much as the Rockets might believe in him, I mean, look at where he was picked and what he cost them relative to Green, Sengun and even Garuba and Josh Christopher. Those guys are more important, and them being able to play and develop in a real offense has to be a bigger priority than the Rockets crossing their fingers on Porter and handing him 40 minutes a night.

    You are correct that the long-term question of filling the point guard position remains a difficult one. The likely top-three players in this draft are frontcourt players, although if the Rockets don’t luck into one of those spots, Purdue’s Jaden Ivey is making a case for himself in the backcourt. It’s possible Houston may need to fill this spot in free agency once Wall’s contract comes off.

    I just don’t think force-feeding Porter makes that question any different. If at some point he shows himself to be a starting-caliber player, the Rockets can re-evaluate, but right now, he wouldn’t even be playing on most teams.

    Iko: Before the season, I actually imagined Porter as more of a wing creator than a lead guy playing with Wall, but judging from Houston’s stance, I don’t think that’s likely.

    If Wall wants one thing and the Rockets want another, I find it hard to believe there’s a real solution outside of a trade (Houston is still anti-buyout). So what does that market look like right now? I just can’t really think of teams that want to take on that much money or have a burning need for Wall’s services. We’re nearly at the quarter mark of the season, so perhaps there’s some noise closer to the deadline? Or maybe it gets easier to move next year as an expiring deal?

    Hollinger: I think there is virtually no chance that Wall gets traded before the deadline. The offseason? Now that is a different story. Maybe there’s a team that has the right combination of long-term dead money, draft capital and need to the point that a trade for Wall is both amenable to the Rockets and makes sense for a rival team.

    Realistically, however, the smart money remains that this ends in a buyout, and the only question is how much money Wall is willing to leave on the table to get to his preferred destination. Look at Kemba Walker’s situation this past season as a guidepost. He gave back several million dollars to the Thunder but immediately got a contract from the Knicks that made up the lost bread. I could easily see a similar situation with Wall, especially if he plays well
     
    jch1911 likes this.
  19. Dobbizzle

    Dobbizzle Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2021
    Messages:
    1,706
    Likes Received:
    2,673
    Everything I've read suggests he was told he wouldn't have the opportunity to earn the position his play would warrant on the team. That doesn't sound like an "agreement" at all. From Wall's perspective as a player, you're a multiple time All-star who's trying to have a career after the Rockets, why the **** wouldn't you want to play? He knows he needs to play to either get traded or have a place waiting if he agreed to a buyout, I'm sure he's wanted to play all along. It sounds more like he wanted the opportunity to earn his spot in the squad (you know, like a competitive sportsman would) and they told him nah we'll play you garbage time or you can sit. Is that an agreement, or is that ****ing up somebody's career to develop somebody you got for free who then proceeded to not hustle back on D for 50% of their missed layups to start the season? And the players are definitely on his side, so you know, more great optics around the league, I'm sure. It's a good thing you all love tanking, it's very doubtful Houston signs a decent free agent in a long time, and we had it bad enough on that front with Morey.
     
  20. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Messages:
    17,548
    Likes Received:
    16,445

    You're probably right in terms of any "agreement" that went on between Wall and Houston/Stone. That being said, playing all last year as the featured Rocket didn't do him any favors other than provide him an opportunity on a nightly basis to pad his stats. IIRC he participated in 14 of the 20 games during last year's losing streak. Was that ALL on him? Absolutely not but Wall wouldn't be doing himself or the Rockets any favors by returning to the starting lineup, pad his stats, and continue to help the Rockets lose this season. I mean, his contract alone makes him highly improbable to trade already and if he plays and stinks it up and/or the Rockets continue to lose, Stone and the team would have no choice but to put him back on ice because what's the point of playing him if it doesn't help the cause, which is Ws?
     
    jch1911 likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now