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John Hollinger leaving ESPN to work for the Grizzlies

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by redhotrox, Dec 13, 2012.

  1. redhotrox

    redhotrox Contributing Member

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    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8745158/espn-columnist-john-hollinger-join-memphis-grizzlies-front-office
     
  2. Clutch

    Clutch Administrator
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    In other news, ESPN is now paying an intern $8/hour to remove all instances of the word "PER" from their website.
     
  3. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Morey ... wtf ... happened?

    Did Hollinger ask for too much money?
     
  4. srrm

    srrm Contributing Member

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    ^ More like Hollinger wasn't smart enough to join the Morey crew
     
  5. BigBenito

    BigBenito Member

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    Kind of a bummer. First Pruiti now Hollinger.
     
  6. ch0c0b0fr34k

    ch0c0b0fr34k Member

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    I guess Hollinger knows what happens to assets when they lose their value.
     
  7. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    btw: I wonder if the Grizzlies started negotiations the week after Hollinger's Power Ranking formula made them #1 this year

    It's like the owner says: "Hmmmm, quite the Yes man. If I ask him who the best team is right now, he'll tell me my team is." I want that kid
     
  8. sugrlndkid

    sugrlndkid Member

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    I would love to see how a media person/writer translates to the world of management and talent evaluation...granted that his stats have been above average, I dont know how John will do as a member of talent evaluation...but then again...he's a really solid analyst...
     
  9. TheRealist137

    TheRealist137 Member

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    pffft, morey probably knew all about his PER and formulas long before Hollinger made them popular.

    Hollinger is a chump compared to Morey
     
  10. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    Analytics isn't just about the Draft and Trades. It's NBA Facts, for the coaches to use, of both your own team and that of opponents. Battier is given folders of data each game to study, for instance.
     
  11. ArtisGilmore

    ArtisGilmore Member

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    Yes, I know it's fashionable here to hate on PER. But

    -It accounts for minutes, pace, and is normalized to the league average.
    -It accounts for TS%, which is the most accurate measure of how efficiently someone scores.
    -I quote Hollinger from a page on ESPN.com: "Bear in mind that PER is not the final, once-and-for-all evaluation of a player's accomplishments during the season. This is especially true for defensive specialists -- such as Quinton Ross and Jason Collins -- who don't get many blocks or steals." So all those people claiming that Hollinger thinks that PER is the greatest statistical measure of all time, this is a straw man.
    -However, nobody will deny that one should take into account more than just scoring, or just rebounds, or just assists, and it would be nice to get an overall measure of a player's worth. I have yet to see anything which beats PER convincingly. Net +/- is interesting, but there are 5 players on the court at each time and thus +/- is not the greatest measure of a player's individual contribution. I don't think Win Shares, which seem to have achieved gold standard in baseball, extends as well into basketball; it said that Pau Gasol is the best player on the 2008-2010 Lakers.

    If you think PER is bad as a statistical measure and have a better idea, propose it and let's see how it stands up to scrutiny. If you think that the entire premise of PER is flawed and that statistical measures like this shouldn't be used, then I am convinced that you will lose this battle in the long run just like you've already lost it in baseball.
     
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  12. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    In fairness to Hollinger, I'm sure he was hired on his ability to do any advanced analytics. PER is popular because it operates off of readily available box score data. But advanced analytics isn't about the boxscore. Ask Morey.

    To answer your question:

    The original NBA efficiency stat is better than PER. B-R used to report that. In is reportable over the entire history of the NBA. I don't know where you query it anymore. In fact, the only difference is PER tries to make the original efficiency stat on a per minute basis.

    That is fine if you are measuring starters against starters with nearly the same amount of minutes, but normalizing everyone to a per minute basis skews the data to overly rate people who aren't starters.

    The big litmus test is the list of the top 50 players in PER vs the Original NBA Efficiency Stat. The accuracy of the Original stat in ranking the best 50 players embarrasses the PER stat.
     
  13. redhotrox

    redhotrox Contributing Member

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    Lots of love for JH:

     
    #13 redhotrox, Dec 13, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
  14. MemphisX

    MemphisX Contributing Member

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    In honor of my surroundings:

    ****SPLASH****
     
  15. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    Pretty sure they are asked to do it for college credit.
     
  16. fishguy91

    fishguy91 Member

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    Bad news for me. Espn insider becomes worthless for me now.
     
  17. conquistador#11

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    98% chances that I won't read anything from espen anymore.
     
  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy QUEEN ANON

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    Agreed but... folders? Really? Folders? What is he a lawyer?
     
  19. heypartner

    heypartner Contributing Member

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    I should have said "Binders ... Binders full of profiles of men"
     
  20. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    Very interesting, can't wait to see what kind of moves they make.

    I'm hoping Steve Kerr teams up with Morey when Hinkie inevitably gets a GM job.

    They would make a great team.
     

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