In the Nets 93-99 loss to the bucks, Kidd scoreline 39mins, FG 7-18 pts24 rebs 3 AST 5 TO's 2 STL 1 Damn, he played all but 9 mins and he only got 5 assists with 2 TO's while jacking up 18 shots, making less than 40% of his shots!!! The nets need to move him to SG!! he can't be a PG with only 5 AST!! he must at least pass the ball more and get more assist!!! Does this rings a bell? there's one player who get 33pts, 11rebs, 9asts, and 5To's who a numbers on this board asked the team to move him to SG!!! how about 24pts, 3rebs, 5asts, 2 To's player, shouldn't the nets move him to SG since he is only scoring but not assisting?
so he didnt have an assist night. ....dont forget about his other nights. he is an assist machine. look at Stevie...most of times he has alot of points..every night... and not always alot of assists.
Glyyde...while i agree that the nonstop Francis position bashing is getting annoying...i must say that your argument is weak - since the Nets LOST with Kidd having that statline.
Glyyde i agree with you. francis does have god assist nights.last year he had alot of near tripple doubles,but because he played games with his migrane, his assists/game went down.Francis is a great player, and a great point guard,but a different point guard then Kidd and miller
Close this damn thread!! That has to be the stupidest thing I have heard! Moving Kidd to SG?!?! WTF?!
robbie, where do you see the sarcasm in the title of the thread and the others responding to it? It is just a stupid thread comparing Kidd to a SG! He's one of the top quality point guards in the NBA! He led the NJ Nets to the NBA Finals!! Did Francis do that?
no man the thread is not comparing kidd to a sg. the thread is making a commentary on all the spastic posters on clutchcity who think steve should be moved to the 2 because he doesnt average 10 assists a game. that is what he is talking about. he isnt serious when he says kidd should be an sg.
why didn't Kidd have a good assist night, simple, look at the other players stats REBOUNDS PLAYER POS MIN FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS JASON KIDD G 39 7-18 3-7 7-7 1 2 3 5 3 1 2 0 24 KERRY KITTLES G 27 5-9 1-1 0-0 1 1 2 3 4 1 0 0 11 KENYON MARTIN F 38 5-14 0-0 1-2 1 7 8 1 3 1 3 0 11 RICHARD JEFFERSON F 25 0-7 0-0 1-2 2 2 4 4 0 1 2 1 1 DIKEMBE MUTOMBO C 27 5-11 0-0 6-7 3 5 8 0 0 0 1 2 16 Rodney Rogers 27 3-6 0-3 3-4 3 3 6 2 4 0 1 1 9 Lucious Harris 26 5-10 1-1 4-4 1 2 3 4 1 1 1 0 15 Aaron Williams 17 0-3 0-0 0-0 2 3 5 2 1 0 1 0 0 Jason Collins 8 0-1 0-0 0-0 1 0 1 1 2 0 0 0 0 Tamar Slay 6 2-2 2-2 0-0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 6 notes that Kenyon Martin, Richard Jefferson, the team next 2 scorer is having a hard time hitting the ball. now, the game against Seattle is by far the most assists Francis got this season, why? simple, 10-15 from Griffin, that is why a PG is able to get his assist. UR TEAMATES MUST SCORE FOR U TO GET ACCOUNTED!!!! other game where francis assist is low, look at the whole team shooting percentage, how are u going to expect Francis to get good assist number? while I believe my statement wun be strong, as I have not been able to watch any of the game since I live in Malaysia. But from all the different info I collected from clutchcity.net, it seems tat quite a lot of poster here states that francis do indeed passes to his teamates but the shots are just not going in. So why the hell blame Francis. Though I agree to those which say that Francis shouldn't stop passing even his teamates can't score, a shooter need more than a few shots to get it going. I say, for the next few games, those ppl who got the opportunity to watch the game in Houston, take notes of the assist attempted by Francis, as in the assist that counts and those that the teamates misses. If it still appears that the numbers is low, then it is true that Francis is not distributing the ball well enough. Is someone willing to do it for the next few games? so ppl like me who dun have a chance to watch the game will be able to judge whether the bashing of francis is appropriate or not.... Sorry, for the long post, I just get irritated by some ppl here for bashing the players whenever they lost a game, but come in and say he is SO GOOD when they win one. Its not like everyday u can find a Bulls team winning 72 games in one season.....
Glyyde, great post. I'm sorry some people have missed the point, but I think it's a great post, and hopefully things will calm down. Steve isn't the reason for any of our two losses, yet he's gotten the most criticism on this board. Is Steve perfect? Nope, and he definitely can improve, but the disporportionate amount of bashing he's received is really lame.
I see where you are coming from, the sarcasm is comical, but those suggesting move SF to the 2 are not doing it based on a game or two, they are basing it on his body of work and style of play for the past 4 years (incl 1 yr at Maryland) in which he has either played the 2 or played like a 2. IT IS NOT A KNOCK ON STEVE to suggest bringing in a PG. Its actually the opposite. Instead of looking at it and believing it is "Steve Bashing" why not look at it from the perspective of being "Steve Promoting". He is a great scorer, he could score more or get easier shots if he was being fed the ball as opposed to having to run the offense.
Hey Glyyde, Jason KIdd is a much better PG than Francis because he is shooting under 50% like PG's are supposed to, duh!!!!!!!!!! I'm just kidding, this would be my ideal lineup PG: Moochie Norris SG: Jason Kidd SF: Juaquin Hawkins PF: Steve Francis(10 rebs/game see my earlier thread) C: Adrian Dantley (he's available) 6th Man: Shootino the Microwave Mobley All we have to do is find some way to trade Pete Mickeal and Kenny Thomas for Jason Kidd and then start meaasurning everybody's ring sizes.
They had a chance to bring in a point guard on draft day. Give it up, it ain't gonna happen... We going with Steve and Cat and Mooch. You might as well live with it or you will just be agonizing youself...
why do people just look at numbers and say - hey he's ok? it's not the numbers, people. it's the style of basketball that stevie plays. that said, i'm rapidly becoming convinced this isn't so much stevie's fault as it is rudy's. at some point you have to wonder if the problem is execution or the gameplan itself. well, when you're averagind 30/10/5 i don't know if it's execution. i think it's the gameplan. i cannot, for the life of me, understand why you would design an offense where your point guard is the #1 option to score. when he's out of the game......................well, we see what happens when he's out of the game (either due to injury or fouls). look at eddie griffin last game - dude was feeling it. however, we had ABSOLUTELY ZERO plays designed to specifically get him the ball (except the pnr, i guess). that's ridiculous. that's gameplan, not execution.
<blockQUOTE><hr>Originally posted by verse why do people just look at numbers and say - hey he's ok? [followed by] well, when you're averagind 30/10/5 i don't know if it's execution. i think it's the gameplan.<hr></blockQUOTE> So, in one point you say don't use Kidd's stats to compare him to Francis, and in the next point you use Francis's stats to presumably compare Rudy to Brian Jordan. <i>(except the pnr, i guess)</i> So, name me all the plays run for Karl Malone. I find this curious. The very first play of the game was to Eddie in the low block. Further, our goal is to have a few plays for each player, but at the same time have ball movement and counter plays....that's the goal, and that is the game plan (unless Rudy and many of the players are lying) and that is all about the execution. Seems what you are complaining about is not how many different plays are designed for Eddie, but rather how many times Rudy calls his number. I'll tell ya, any play run specifically for Eddie is not going to have much ball movement unless it is the PnR.
what i meant was that if francis is putting up that many numbers (ppg, rpg, apg), it is apparently by design. else he would be accused of dominating the ball too much by the coaching staff and thus reprimanded. but he isn't reprimanded (at least not that anyone can tell). so i'll assume that he is doing what they want him to do. as for karl malone, i can't say that i study utah much, so i can't tell you their plays by name. HOWEVER, i can tell you that i've seen screens set for karl - away from the ball - to get him open for short shots. also, it must be noted that the pnr is a fantastic play for karl because not only does he set a brick wall for a pick, he also has the ball handling ability to accept the feed, put it on the floor (in stride) and go to the hole. eddie does not have that ability - at least not yet, which is why we see pick and fades, instead of pick and rolls. you want me to name plays for eddie outside of the pnr? ok. refer to the la lakers game last year where eddie had his coming out party. you'll notice that eddie wasn't just launching standstill 3s. eddie was coming around screens, cutting to the basket w/o the ball, accepting backscreens, etc. and these plays did have decent ball movement. at least 2 passes worth, which is one more than we see right now. where have these options gone? presumably, they have gone out the window - since eddie is not as "effecient" as francis and mobley. but "efficiency" is bullsh*t in this case. NO NBA TEAM will win with the offensive strategy we employ...especially not in the west, no matter how "efficient" it is. the sonics game was a painful reminder of what i saw too clearly last season - we have no true distributor in the backcourt at all and no offensive balance. so when francis goes out the game, the entire offense is gone...no chance for anyone else to flourish because we have no visible plan for involving them. when steve is in it's "give it to steve and let him try to score. if he can't score, he'll pitch it to someone for a standstill jumper." gee...i wonder why his assist totals suck ass? it is imperative that we have balance offensively - IMPERATIVE. griff &/or ming can provide that balance, but not if they don't get the reps they need. hell, rudy gave francis and mobley those reps for freakin' 3 seasons! and griff/ming don't even need the quantity of reps fran/mobe got. i just mean a consistent 10-15 touches each for them. so yes, i AM complaining about the number of times griff's # is called. ming, too. this team is a timebomb waiting to explode, imo. too much talent to be this stupid offensively. too much talent for the backcourt to chuck up 40 shots. too much talent for the #1 draft pick to get 15 minutes while a 29 year old rookie gets 30. too much talent for the #15 draft pick to get 0 minutes, while a broke thumb kenny gets 15 minutes and a broke knee rice gets on the court at all. somebody's gonna get pissed off sooner or later. i'm just trying to point out the warning signs....
btw, heypee, quick trivia question: when was the last time you saw a set play where a rocket ended up with a wide open 18 footer? tick tick tick tick.....
