Hello gang, this is my first post. I feel that he can help the starters more then Cato(yuk) will because our team is so perimeter oriented. This team remind me of the Detroit Piston on the late80early90 without the badboy image. Stevie =Zeke ,Cat=Dumars, Aquirre=langhi.griffin.morris,Salley=MoT,Laimbeer=SweetStroke Collier,Rodman=KT ok a stretch but you get the point. I really do trust Rudy and CD about Collier and Cato(yuk). Ok Take it easy it is just my first post.
Welcome to the board, but I have to disagree. Collier is not even CBA quality. If he starts, the Rockets are an automatic lock for the lottery. At least Cato provides a bit of a presence in the middle, and is a definite shot blocking threat. Collier is too slow to play D in the NBA. All he does is shoot- and he hasn't even impressed me in that department. Don't listen to Cat, who thinks that 4 point 2 board games are all-star quality.
As bad an work attitude as Cato has he probably would start over collier at this point if they are our only centers. Don't get me wrong I like collier very much when he's healthy but right now he is really struggling even in the SL. From what I have seen of him last month he is hampered very much with his injuries and his shots were way off. He was working hard though trying to run up and down the court but he just couldn't keep up(I know he tried hard cause his face was so red I thought he was going to explode). He wouldn't be able to keep up with any center(starter or bench) in the NBA at this point, and with that he wouldn't be able to outplay anyone either for rebounds or play defense. He's very far from what he was at the begining of last season. When he's healthy he could be good enough to start(I think I remember him starting a couple of times for us last year) and I like what he can bring by spreading the defense with his outside shot. I hope the guy can fully recover by mid season or else we'll have to wait till next year to see what he can really do.
Collier is to much of a liablity on defense, although if used correctly could be a decent offensive player. Collier is not a banger, and this is what the Rockets need at the 5 or 4. Someone mean and nasty that will punch anyone in the jaw that attempts to run through the lane. The Rockts were getting MURDERED in the paint after Sacremento exploited their weakness of a presence in the middle. Teams were penetrating with ease and confidence simply beause there was no one to fear. I personally would like to bring on Mason for the right cash instead of Marc Jackson. Maybe the zone will create some difficulties with teams penetrating and running straight to the hoop. If not, heres to hoping the Rockets can score 110 a game
i dont know how you people can suggest anyone to start at center when we have a center whos in the nba's top 50. shame on you
Axel may be a last resort as a back up to Cato, if we can't sign Marc Jackson and Collier remains on the IR. I quess the starting line up could be: Steve Cuttino and 3 Small Forwards (Griffin, Langhi, Williams, Morris, Taylor, Anderson, et al)
Yeah! CD and the Rockets should be ashamed of themselves. Hakeem and his big contract is gone and the team still has little or no flexibility to sign anyone decent to replace the Dream. And when I say CD has an obligation to take care of Anderson, everybody thinks it is a joke. For the life of me, I cannot understand why the man keep mentioning Anderson.
Oh my God!! I think the sky is falling! I actually agree with ZRB on this one. Bottom line is that Collier sucks, plain and simple. I still would like to know what Rudy and CD saw in him. Remember, we could still have Joel Pryzbilla.
I don't care how many times that Kermit Washington has apologized, Rudy cannot pick him up to play for the Rockets!
Oh boy!! Here we go again about it was all the Rockets fault that Hakeem is gone. Didn't you read Dr of Dunk's thread "Olajuwon admits that the Rockets were never in it"? Face it, people Olajuwon is not this nice and great guy that he has made us all believe. The sooner we realize this, the better for everyone involved.
Collier is not even CBA quality. I'll argue with ZRB on other threads, but he's bullseye on this one. Bottom line is that Collier sucks, plain and simple. Sounds like it's time to repost some numbers and recaps from the FIRST MONTH of his NBA career. It's funny how all you bashers go by is generalizations. Why don't you show some facts, some numbers? Very weak argument from you guys. This addressed to ZRB a few weeks ago, and it would apply here as well. You are really showing your ignorance on basketball here. Why don't you back up your posts with some facts and statistics, instead of the baseless bull**** we had to hear from you during the season? Explain to me why Jason Collier should be cut. Each team needs 2 centers, some 3. There are 29 teams in the NBA, so let's say they need 2.5 centers each. Multiply the two together, you get 72.5. Can you please name me 72 centers better than Jason Collier in the NBA? You obviously don't know much about the draft either. The majority of NBA players don't come in and blow everyone away their first year. It is a constant cycle of improvement that you can only gain through experience and working hard. You'll probably be writing off Griffin if he comes in this year and averages 9 and 6 in 25 minutes a game. So let's talk some about Collier. Don't give me this **** about he's slow, or doesn't have good athletism. That doesn't make you a good player. Give me some statistics, some facts, some information. You told me the other day in the chat that you, like me, were a fan of Sam Perkins. Exactly how is Sam Perkins right now that much better than Collier? He has a little more range on his jumper, and well, that's it. He's much slower running the floor, much worse in post defense, much worse in hustle... should he be cut too? Or is adding 3 feet to your jumper the difference between being CBA material and being a "ZRB favorite". Let's talk about some of the things he can do. At least average in running the floor-- if you guys think he doesn't have enough speed compared to most NBA centers you need to see how slow a lot of these guys are. Offensively, he really has a lot of skills. Has a nice lefty hook near the baseline that is very hard to defend. When he's aggressive inside, he can really score with anyone. He has the post moves, and the soft touch. In addition to that, he has an excellent jumper out to 20-21 feet, probably past Mo Taylor's range, and he can space the floor really well. Did you see how good he did against Shaq and the Lakers on election night in that area? What also really helps him is that when he sets picks, he sets them like a brick wall, and then he knows where to go to get open for the jumper after Steve or Cuttino is doubled. That knowledge and understanding of the game is extremely rare for someone playing his first month in the NBA. He knows the fundamentals of the game very well, but to most those types of things are overshadowed by mad hops and windmill dunks. Defensively, he's not the best, but he's still learning. He really knows how to box out for the rebounds, and he works his ass off in the post. He has the hustle that Cato and others lack, and I can tell he will be successful one day based on that alone. Don't agree? Let's look at some numbers from when Collier was healthy and given the backup center minutes. Season numbers are irrelevant, as he was hurt after the Celtics game in November and was clearly not the same player afterwards. Minutes that he picked up at the end of games are also mostly irrelevant. Take a look at the numbers when he was fully healthy, given the role on the team Rudy needs him to fill, and was given a chance to get in the flow of the game. Lakers November 7 Collier-- 10 pts (4-6 shooting), 4 reb, 13 minutes Boy, this sure screams CBA. In his first week in the NBA, he comes out and does everything we need him to do. He spaces the floor, rebounds, hits the open shots, plays Shaq with as much courage as you can asks, and teams with Hakeem to limit Shaq to a mere 24 points and 7 rebounds on 8-19 shooting. The fans gave him a standing ovation. Grizzlies November 9 Collier-- 8 pts (4-7 shooting), 4 reb, 20 minutes Again, he did everything you could ask. What more could you expect from a rookie in his first month? He hit the open shots, rebounded, set picks well, defended well, etc. His counterpart that game, Ike Austin, was limited to 2 points and 2 rebounds in 18 minutes of play on 1-5 shooting. Blazers November 11 Collier-- 12 pts (5-9 shooting), 4 reb, 21 minutes Another horrible performance. Collier goes out against the deepest frontcourt in the NBA, on a terrible shooting game for the rest of the Rockets, and still finds a way to continually contribute on both ends of the floor. His counterpart on the Blazers, Shawn Kemp, was limited to 8 points and 5 rebounds in 24 minutes. Lakers November 12 Collier-- 10 pts, 3 reb, 16 min He is just pathetic isn't he? Against Shaq and the Lakers, on the road, in the first month of his career, he only gives 10 points and 3 rebounds in 16 minutes. I mean, if he continues on that pace for starters minutes, he would have 20 points and 6 rebounds. Horrible. He should be getting 50 and 20 in the first month. And how did he do on defense? Pretty damn terrific. This was Shaquille O'Neal, one of the most dominant big men of all time. Of all-time. And Collier teamed with Hakeem at the center spot that game to limit Shaq to just 14 points and 5 rebounds on 6-14 shooting. No, it wasn't just Dream at all. Suns November 18 Collier-- 6 pts, 2 reb, 14 minutes This was the game that put the Rockets over .500 for the first time in since 1999. And Collier did his job just fine. Hit his shots, set picks well-- did everything you could ask from a young player in the first month of his career. He also limited his competition, Jake Tsaklidas, to just 2 points and 1 rebound. Pacers November 21 Collier-- 0 pts (0-5), 2 reb, 15 min The only time he didn't bring it on the offensive end. So? Everyone's allowed to have a bad game, or at least they should be. No one can be perfect every night. Those other games should significantly outweigh this one, except according to bashers like yourself I'm sure. And he definitely didn't forget the defensive end. Remember Jeff Foster? The Pacers center many of you were hoping to get in an Hakeem sign and trade? Collier held him to 1 point and 0 rebounds in 12 minutes head to head. Celtics November 22 Collier-- 7 pts, 2 reb, 21 minutes This was the game he got hurt in, so I'm not sure how relevant some of these stats are. But he still did a pretty damn good job, in a game that most of the Rockets couldn't throw the ball in the ocean. For a comparison, Steve Francis had 6 points in 27 minutes in that game. No, these aren't all the games Collier played. But they are all the games in which he was both healthy and given the minutes and role he needed to succeed. Can you really expect him to contribute huge numbers and production when he's thrown on the court for a few minutes in garbage time, with no time period to get into the flow, no structured offense (which he strives in), etc.? And can you really expect him to produce major numbers when his knee isn't near 100%? Those numbers aren't Shaq-like. But you know what? They're pretty damn good for a rookie in the first month of his NBA career, and he still can't seem to get any respect around here. So many of us seemed to crave Austin Croshere last summer at the same time they bashed Collier, never even thinking that Croshere completely sucked for two years. He never had a stretch like Collier did in the limited time he was healthy. And he's a pretty solid NBA player. ZRB, tell me this. Who's the last CBA center, or a center who should be in the NBA, that came into the NBA, and immediately, in the first month of his career, contributed similar numbers and on court results to Collier this year? I can't think of many, if any at all.
He reminds me too much of Will Perdue, Bill Wennington, Luc Longley, Chris Dudley, Mark Eaton, Tom Boerwinkle, etc. He's another big white guy who can't jump. Yes, I know he had some good games last year, but even Cato had some good games too like the game at Atlanta. Until he shows me that he can stay healthy and be available for all 82 games, then he'll be a bust to me. We just lost one injury-prone center leaving us with 2 injury-prone centers. Here's a novel idea: why can't we have 2 or 3 centers that are non-injury-prone?
He's another big white guy who can't jump. So if he was a black guy with the same physical attributes you wouldn't put him in that group? Until he shows me that he can stay healthy and be available for all 82 games, then he'll be a bust to me. Steve Francis has never done that. Is he a bust? However, I do realize that he played near 82 games. So let's look at another example: Antawn Jamison. His first season getting major minutes he only played in 43 of 82 games. Did you consider him a bust?
Collier will not start. The Rockets will start Cato if the roster stays like it is now. The Rockets want to prove why they gave Cato that money. They want him to start in order to help his trade value.
I'm sure these guys support the signing of Marc Jackson - if they've ever seen him play they'll know that he's a big guy who can't jump and is a liability on defense. All Mjacks brings to the table is the outside jumper and rebounding - WAIT - that's what Collier brings too! Is it Colliers fault that he got injured last year? Does one injured season make him injury prone? How many times did he get injured in his collegiate career? MmmmmHmmmm. What was the difference between Collier and MJacks last year? Was it opportunity? Is it just that Jackson was on a team where he was allowed to shoot alot because all the starters were injured? Oh yeah, argue that Colliers useless because he can't jump and he's injury prone - that's a solid argument.
I fail to understand how you could say something so ridiculous as "We could've still had Joel "turnover" Pryzbilla" - the guy is just awful, nothing on offense and I think foul is his middle name - looks a lot like Jim McIlvaine... Also, remember that if we had Pryzbilla then we wouldn't have Griffin right now - care to trade Collier and Griffin back for Pryz? No, I didn't think so.
