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Jaden Ivey Will Be The Pick, I Guarantee It!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by ghettocheeze, May 19, 2022.

  1. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    You don't even realize you just blew up your own argument.

    Do you actually think we can get players the caliber of Banchero and Smith at 17?

    I'm sorry I even responded to your post.
     
  2. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Name a team in the last 10 years that won with only a serviceable big man?
     
  3. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Okay, so why look to move a part of what IMO is our young core when we can't replace him with someone of comparable or greater value?

    As to Ivey not "fitting"....well, you just said Green was in your mind the only member of the "core".....well Green is the reason why Ivey doesn't fit and will never fit. Green is the SG and Ivey has no PG skills. The reason KPJ fits so well with Green is that he's a combo guard, he can play the PG role, or defer to Green if that is what is needed.

    You'd be using your 3rd pick to make the team worse if you dumped KPJ and drafted Ivey....that seems wasteful to me, especially when there's better players who actually do fit with the current roster.
     
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  4. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    "chomping at the big"? Uh, it's just an internet board. I've consistently said I might be wrong. My least favorite guy, at #3, is Smith. I'd take Smith at #6 or 7 in a heartbeat ...just not at 3 and not if Ivey is on the board. But I'm not being paid the big bucks and I think Smith will be a solid rotation player for a long time. I just don't see him as a star.

    Banchero strikes me as a guy who will be the best player on a bad team for most of his career. I think Cousins or Blake Griffen. Amazing players but in the end, you need to pair them with a strong PG. Sorta like Shawn Kemp. He needed Gary Payton (note, they never won a championship either).

    Now that I'm saying it, has there ever been a team to win with a strong 1/4 combo? Even Utah had the best 1/4 combo ever and they never won either.
     
  5. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    I go with best player available, not fit. This team is nowhere close to contending so the goal is to collect talent.
     
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  6. MaxRider

    MaxRider Member

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    I guess you forgot Bucks won last year and their best player is PF/C. BTW Robert Williams is 6'8". The reason Bam and him got drafted so low is because they are undersized C. Both Heat and Celtics also have good coaching system. There are team drafting undersized PF/C and they end up suck. Like Thomas Robinson. The league is also fill with guards/wings that isn't going anywhere. Lillard, Beal, Mitchell, PG13, DeRozan. Each team is build differently. Right now we don't even have an identity. Just draft best potential available. Is Ivey better than Banchero? Nobody knows. Ivey is good, but not good enough for me to take him over Chet/Jabari/Paolo. Especially when we have so many guards on the team already.
     
  7. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    Golden State Warriors

    17-18: JaVale McGee
    18-19: Andrew Bogut
    19-20: Kevon Looney
     
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  8. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    So, in theory, you'd draft 6'4 SG's who are mediocre shooters and who struggle with their handles with every single pick for the next several years?

    Don't you see how that would be basically killing the franchise?

    If your team had no core whatsoever, sure you go with BPA, but even you think that there's at least 1 "core" player on the team already, so you need to take that into consideration. That 1 "core" player is essentially a better in every possible way version of Ivey.

    On top of that, you have a second player I consider part of the young core who is also a better in every possible way version of Ivey who also has PG skills.

    With those two players already on the roster, it necessarily has to change the calculus so if you thought 2 players were at a very similar level, you'd take the one that actually fit.

    The only world where you bite the bullet and pick Ivey anyway is if you believe he's absolutely towering over every other player available on top of being better than at least one starter on the team already at a position they are capable of playing and I don't think there's anyone at all who believes that.
     
  9. csc177

    csc177 Member

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    If stone drafts Ivey at 3 he should be fired. You already have that type of player in KPJ (who arguably has the most talent on the team minus his mental state).

    You take one of Banchero Chet or Jabari, it’s that simple. Then you make a move to trade up and strike gold like we did with Sengun.
     
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  10. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Arguably the most important player on those teams was Draymond Green....who qualifies as a "big".

    He was the glue that held that team together.
     
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  11. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    You immediately contradict yourself. If you believe Ivey is better than the big 3, then having so many guards on the team is an irrelevant statement so why make that statement?

    I firmly believe the Rockets will play it safe and take whichever of the big 3 is left on the board. It's a great problem to have because they are all three quality players. I think Smith is the "safest" best to have a good career ...and I also think he has the lowest ceiling. I think Banchero is the most NBA ready so he'll have a quick start and likely wins ROY.

    I just think Ivey will have a better NBA career, in totality, than Smith or Banchero. I wholly admit I might be wrong. Just one opinion among many.
     
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  12. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    I said only a serviceable big man, Draymond is a max player and I guess you think Durrant is 6'2??
     
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  13. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    Yea, even you had to put that in quotes ...and he was drafted #35 ...so that further reinforces my point that there is no need to over reach in the draft to pick a big just for the sake of getting a big. You take the best available player. I just don't see Smith as an impact player.
     
  14. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    I listed the starting centers. Durrant didn't even start at PF, did he? Draymond always started at PF ...and he was selected at #35 ...nobody picked him at #3.
     
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  15. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    First of all, there's not anyone who argues that Draymond Green isn't a big.

    Secondly, no one argues for picking a big just for the sake of picking a big.....this thread is actually arguing for picking a SG just for the sake of picking a SG.

    I argue that you pick the best player available, especially when the best player available is at a position of need. I also argue that if I thought 2 players were at about the same level, I'd pick the one that fits over the one that plays the same position as the guy I drafted with the #2 pick in the draft just last year.
     
  16. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    I think Ivey is better than Smith and Banchero.

    Smith is a solid role player for life. Not worthy of a top 3 pick, IMO.
    Banchero is a ball dominant PF.

    I simply don't see KPJ as a long term fit here. I think he bolts as soon as his contract is up. He'll be Chandler Parsons 2.0. I hope I'm wrong. But it a team makes us a good offer, I think we package KPJ up and send him along.
     
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  17. xaos

    xaos Member

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    I guess I haven't mentally committed to KPJ/JC/Nix as a long term plan guy given where we are in the rebuild. We have enormous flexibility finding prospects right now.

    I think KPJ has the most talent out of the 3 gaurds not named Green, but he has way too much to prove for me to be passing on Ivey, who I'd rank higher as a prospect (bigger gap between Ivey and KPJ than Banchero and Sengun).

    I also think Sengun is an amazing player, but I wouldn't pass on Banchero because of Sengun either.

    I don't think Sengun should be a factor when picking 3rd overall in this draft, but I don't think Sengun and Banchero will be a championship level front court, but I could see Ivey/Green as a championship level backcourt.

    I'd also rank possible duos like this:
    Green/Ivey
    Green/Banchero
    Green/Sengun
    Green/KPJ
     
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  18. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. You can't argue that you take BPA and simultaneously argue that you take a position of need.

    You also argue that we have a young core. Isn't Sengun part of that young core? So wouldn't taking Banchero stunt the growth of Sengun? Who's to say that Banchero will be better or worse than Sengun in 3 years?

    Anyway, it's just an opinion that is entirely unanswerable. Let's check back in 5-6 years to see who was right. ;)

    In the meantime, I'm super happy if we get any one of the top 4. The only one that I think could be a bust is Chet, and strangely, he's the one I hope we get. So put that in your pipe and smoke it. :p
     
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  19. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Okay, so you think Ivey is better than Smith or Banchero....but how much better?

    To pick a guy that plays the EXACT same position as the guy you drafted #2 JUST LAST YEAR, you better be thinking he's absolutely towering above all others. That he's a future superstar.

    Also, so you don't think KPJ is a long term fit.....fine, but why would Ivey who is worse at literally everything on the basketball court AND a worse fit with Green, be a better fit long term?

    I'm wanting to be open minded about this, but I've yet to hear anyone even attempt to suggest there's anything at all Ivey does better than KPJ or Green....so that's why it's hard to get me to come around on the idea of dumping players just to spend top picks on inferior players.
     
  20. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Im honestly trying to understand your point of view but I fail to get it. Teams draft based on holes that need to be filled and whether the player can fit in with what the team is trying to do. Meaning if Jalen is the focus then what other player from the draft can they create a pairing with and what do they envision the pairing to accomplish. How can Ivey play with Green when they are both shooting guards and especially both need the ball to make plays or score? If you just draft on talent if your team has a talented center on the roster would you take another talented big in the draft? I don’t get the logic.
     

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