IT gurus and people working in IT please respond....

I was in a similar situation when I was looking for a job, but I had the IT degree. I had the grades, I had experience, a great resume, a nice suit, solid references, and lots of informal experience with some "professional" stuff mixed in.

If you already have a job it's great, but honestly, it's freakin' impossible to find a job if you don't have experience. Look at the jobs you'll see. 3 to 5 years of experience is not uncommon. And there are so many people who were laid off from dot-coms, so many people who got IT degrees because there was money in it, so many people who got laid off from bigger companies, that the competition is HUGE. Every day I thank God that I have this job. Despite the endless hours, and my having to teach, I have as stable a job as is possible. And for that I'm eternally grateful. For now at least.

Those classes at MTI and ITT are not all they're cracked up to be. You may learn a lot, but all the people I've known who did those ended up getting 6 to 9 dollars per hour working at computer shops. Hardly worth it.

IT is something that I don't think one should go into unless you really like it. There's a glut of IT people already, even though some unknowing people would tell you otherwise. Heck, I ended up in education. My friend who has an MCSE, A+ and 3 years of experience is currently out of work, waiting for another contract to roll around. He was making 23 dollars per hour doing an easy job, making per-diem AND bonuses working for El Paso Energy. The thing is, it was temporary . . . His recruiters haven't found anything for him yet.

He's supposed to be getting on a cabling contract soon that pays $7 per hour. It lasts for 4 years, so he should be set there.

IT has gotten better in the past year since I was looking for a job (or so I've read), but by no means is it an easy place to find a job. There are so many qualified candidates, and SO MANY companies that want experience that you're screwed unless you got some professional experience before the tech collapse.

 

If you are going to be in IT do programming, it pays the most and usually has a pretty good job market. The IT market sucks a big fatty right now, especially in Houston and it may get worse before it gets better. 9/11, Enron debacle, Arthur Anderson layoffs, Continental Airlines layoffs, many other layoffs, Compaq merger and more layoffs it is not a good time for IT work.

Certifications are good. The certifications that you get depend on what you want to do. I think MCSE is crap and too many people have it and the majority of the people that have it dont know what they are doing. We call these people paper techs. Plus getting a network job isnt that easy anymore. Cisco is good cert to have if you want to do network. A+ and Network+ is pretty good if you want to do support but you will make the least amount of money doing it. I still think that programming is the way to go and if you agree go get a MCSD. Having a degree sometimes helps and sometimes it doesnt. A degree is good if and when you want to advance and for management jobs. I know guys that say that a degree has hurt them in the past because some managers feel you may be too smartand will make them look bad. I dont have one so I dont know personally. I have never seen where my lack of degree has hurt me.

The main thing is getting experience. Good luck with your job hunt and learn the fine art of interviewing. A good interview will get you a job more than anything. Your resume and experience is usually what gets you the interview.

 

AMEN!! The one thing I forgot about -- they are ALWAYS wanting programmers. Try some Visual Basic, Visual C++, Java and some M$ SQL server -- you'll find some jobs then.

But the thing about programming -- you have to have a mind for it. I'm an AWFUL programmer, so I couldn't do it. But now I teach it, so what the heck do I know

 

I don't know what an MCSE will get you, but I know an A+ isn't worth more than 9 to 10 bucks per hour at the best.

I have another friend who is A+ and he doesn't make but $8.25 per.

When I started working at Lightspeed, I made 5.25 per. As an entry-level PC tech, that is the going rate.

 

The degree will not teach you much. The degree is really there only to prove you know what you know. The thing is, the only programming cert I can think of is "MCSD" - Microsoft Certified Systems Developer. Learn the stuff, then get the cert. If not you'll be a "paper-tech", and it'll soon show. Anyone can get the certification, just like anyone can do well on the SAT.

The thing about programming is that you have to have a mind for it. Try it out first, see if it is something you enjoy, then go for it if you do. This is even more of one of those things that you shouldn't go into unless you enjoy it.

email me

 

You'd be suprised how many philosophy, english, history, etc majors there are working in IT. Since you already have a degree, I wouldn't focus on getting another one (unless it is completely vital to the field you are going into...ie IT management,etc.)

IMO, certs can prove very helpful. If you are just getting into the industry, a cert in the field you are interested can assist you in getting an entry-level positon. If you are already experienced, a cert can put you at an advantage when applying for a job where many of the applicants have similar knowledge and experience. In addition, many shops will only deal with certified individuals, particularly when farming out certain jobs such as migrations and massive deployments.

A cert will not: guarantee you gobs of money or a guaranteed job...be wary of anyone who tries to convince you otherwise.

The most important thing to have is knowledge and experience.

Depends on what you want to do...what are you interested in? I'll agree that there is always a market for programmers (even now). But, most of the high-demand/high-paying jobs aren't for entry level VB coders; they're for experienced, high-level programmers particularly with database experience. Plus, coding is definitely not for everyone...

If you're just getting started out, start out studying what most companies use: Microsoft OSes, Cisco routing, Exchange mail, and networking basics

Be careful here, especially. There are lots of so-called "boot camps" willing to take people's money who are hoping to start new careers in IT. The lure is a certification in a few weeks with the promise of lots of money and job offers shortly thereafter.

The best (and most cost effective) ways in my opinion is the self-study route or IT classes at a local university/cc.

You will get the opportunity to get hands on experience, ask questions, break stuff, and learn at a slower pace than tradition 3-5 day IT training courses. Once you have the knowledge, you can take the certification tests...

What area(s) in particular are you interested in? Feel free to give me a buzz if you like...

x34

 

If you can and feel like it, go back to school and get the BS in CS. School can be fun and you'll have a better footing. However, there are many people in IT that do not have a CS degree or even a degree (like me).

Experience. You're in the catch-22 land right now. Keep applying and keep trying and right now don't be afraid to be under paid. When I got my first job in 1985, the bottom was out in Houston and there were lots of experienced engineers out on the streets. In the interview, when they asked what I expected to make, I said, "Half of minimum wage would be fine." Then when they told me I got the job and what my salary would be I said to the HR person (don't do this to your future boss), "You know I was just kidding when I said that don't you". Now I can't go anywhere because I make too much. But I'm happy and I have been blessed - besides the family - good pay, good company, good boss, good working environment. You have to get the experience even if you have to scrape for a year or two. And keep the resume up to date - don't get stuck doing obsolete coding. You'll make more money and have more stability doing the things that most wanted.

Do what you will be happy doing. You're going to be doing it for a long time.

An MSXX might help but I agree with MB, the people that have the most "certificates" MS, BrainBench, etc are usually the most ignorant - no offense to those who have it - I'm sure you're in the minority. But I've seen some bosses (the ones I would try to get out from under) who are out of the loop - reading trade magazines to keep up from their mainframe days - that look highly upon these.


Be hungry, stay positive and keep trying. You'll get there.

 

What frightens me about some of the postings on this bbs is the fact people look at salary alone and say "that's what I want to do". I know a lot of programmers making $65 to over $90k that think their work is a whipping. I see programmers working 12-18 hour shifts sometimes at companies (not necessarily the norm). Programmers are often at the mercy of management and customer requirements. They're often caught in between. Like I said in another post, if you love programming, doing it for the corporate world may wish you didn't.

As for what gets a job - experience is usually what gets a job nowadays. Also, the salaries have dropped a bit. Having a comp sci degree or certification is important when starting out, but after 3-5 years of experience, nobody really cares about the degree (in my experience anyway).

The hottest programming jobs out there still revolve around two worlds Microsoft and non-Microsoft. Usually this translates into Java or .Net.

With all this being said, I've been watching the job market in the Houston and Dallas areas. Dallas was absolutely slaughtered by the tech downturn. I left the Houston area because everything seemed to revolve around energy, real estate, or Compaq. It's a tight market right now for anything IT related if you're looking to get a good IT salary (> $50k). People who used to command over $80k/year are now begging to work for $50k in many cases, or hell, begging for a job. We had a systems/network admin position in our company open up. I recently talked to a recruiter for our company, and she said within 10-20 minutes of the job being posted on various search sites, we had around 50 responses. I feel sorry for marketing, advertising, or IT types graduating right about now... it's tough out there.

 

Visual C++....ugh! I'm taking an Introduction to Programming class right now where they're teaching us Visual C++ and I have to say that having no prior programming experience, this class is a b****.

 

I am a programmer and I have been working since I graduated UT 13 years ago with a Computer Science Degree. Currently I am surfing the net on company time and enjoying every bit of it.

Programming is easy if you have the knack. I have tried to get many of my friends and family to become programmers with mixed results. Some can get it done, others just don't comprehend how to take a business process and program it. Basically if you have the knack you can probably teach yourself how to program but if you don't you probably need to go back to school to get formal education on it. Programming is not very easy to alot of people.

If I were you I would concentrate on Visual Basic. Go and get a Visual Basic for Dummies book or another book that has alot of excersises. If from reading the book you can do the exersises with ease you probably have the knack and should continue programming. If you have problems then you should look to going back to school to get more formal education.

 

If you don't want to program, you might want to consider getting into Technical Support. The pay will be low at the beginning, but the more experience (and certifications) you get along the way, the more $$ you will make. If you specialize in doing tech support for an ERP software package like PeopleSoft or SAP, you can make even more.