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It begins: Redding sent, Oliver to IL; Hernandez, Qualls called up

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by NIKEstrad, Aug 11, 2004.

  1. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

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    Link Redding given a ticket to minors
    Loss to Mets prompts Astros to recall Hernandez
    By JOSE DE JESUS ORTIZ
    Copyright 2004 Houston Chronicle


    NEW YORK - Tim Redding stood by his locker fiddling with his cell phone in one corner of Shea Stadium's visitors' clubhouse late Tuesday night. On the other side, two of his teammates talked about how happy they were to see him finally banished to Class AAA New Orleans.

    The Astros are tired of losing, and they're really tired of guys not pulling their weight.

    Redding wasn't the only reason the Astros lost another game. But he definitely let the Mets pull away with three runs in the seventh inning to secure a 7-3 victory in the opener of a three-game series.

    After the dismal relief outing before a crowd of 28,472, Redding was told to pack his bags and head to New Orleans. At least one of his teammates — but more than likely two — will follow the erratic righthander to Louisiana this week.

    "Not to pin everything on Redding, but the bullpen just hasn't been getting the job done lately," Astros general manager Gerry Hunsicker said after demoting Redding and placing lefthander Darren Oliver on the 15-day disabled list. "It's most everybody down there. You've got to start somewhere. It won't be the only move that we make, but it's a start. He's one of the guys that have (minor-league) options down there.

    "The continuing theme with him has been command. We've talked for years about how much ability he has. It's time for him to put the finishing touches on becoming a major-league pitcher."

    In a sign of just how little trust the Astros have in Redding's ability and maturity, he was demoted even though the man who replaced him in the starting rotation two week ago landed on the disabled list the same night. New Orleans righthander Chad Qualls will replace Redding in the bullpen, and Zephyrs lefthander Carlos Hernandez has been promoted to start in Oliver's place Saturday.

    "You put your team together, and to some degree you live and die with your players," Hunsicker said. "It's no different regardless of who it is, whether it's Jeff Bagwell or Lance Berkman or anybody else. If you have confidence in somebody, you've got to stay with them and hope they can snap out of it.

    "We've had confidence in Redding's ability. We've had a lot of patience with him. Again, it's not just him. This is a start, and I suspect there will be another change or two coming."

    Long considered immature by teammates, Redding, who is 4-7 with a 5.73 ERA, didn't earn any points with some veterans by refusing to talk to the media afterward. Regardless, the Astros must figure out a way to get out of their funk.

    "We're always trying to find answers," Bagwell said after the Astros lost their third game in a row and fifth of six. "It's just frustrating. I've never seen anything like this."

    Symptomatic of their season, the Astros got off to a strong start Tuesday before fizzling in the middle innings.

    Berkman gave the Astros a 1-0 lead with a home run in the first. The Astros added another run in the second, which Jeff Kent led off with a double. Morgan Ensberg followed with a single to left, and Jose Vizcaino drove in Kent from third with a fielder's choice grounder.

    The Astros had a tremendous opportunity to build a cushion in the third. Craig Biggio led off with a single to left, and Berkman followed with a walk off Steve Trachsel. After Carlos Beltran hit a fielder's choice grounder to short and stole second base, Bagwell loaded the bases with a walk.

    Trachsel induced a fielder's choice grounder to the mound from Kent and a fly out to center from Ensberg to strand the runners.

    "We've just gotten into a funk about putting several runs across the plate," manager Phil Garner said. "Our rallies have fizzled on us."

    The Mets cut the deficit to 2-1 on Eric Valent's RBI single to second base in the bottom of the third inning. Brad Ausmus' RBI double down the left-field line gave the Astros a 3-1 lead in the fourth, but Pete Munro gave it all back in the bottom of the inning.

    Cliff Floyd and Richard Hidalgo led off the New York fourth with back-to-back doubles, cutting the Astros' lead to 3-2. Mike Cameron tied the score with an RBI single to center and reached third when Beltran let the ball roll under his glove. David Wright added an RBI single, giving the Mets a 4-3 lead.

    "I couldn't stay out of the big inning," Munro said. "Cliff hit actually a good pitch. It was like six inches outside, and he just went the other way. That's Cliff Floyd for you."

    The Mets pulled away with three more runs off Redding in the seventh, which Wright started with a home run over the left-field wall. Jason Phillips walked, and Joe McEwing sacrificed. Gerald Williams added a pinch-hit single, and Jose Reyes hit a two-run triple over Beltran's head in center to cap the scoring.

    "It did look like we were in control of the game, and then they came back," Garner said. "It's a story that's been all too familiar. How we're going to fix that, that is what we're going to try to figure it out."


    Well, here comes Carlos at least. That line by Ortiz hinting more demotions to come is interesting- I've always thought Ortiz was one of the better writers, and seems to be in the know. The frustrating thing about Redding was he cruised through the 6th.
     
  2. Mr. Mooch

    Mr. Mooch Contributing Member

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    Hunsicker is a ****ing genius.
     
  3. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

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    I get teary eyed thinking about Carlos Hernandez. The man who before ever even having thrown a major league pitch was proclaimed by Peter Gammons to have as good stuff as any lefty not named Johnson in the big leagues. 16 shutout innings. Man, between him and Eddie Griffin...
     
  4. Nick

    Nick Member

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    He did, however, go on to make several starts in 2002, post-injury. He had several good games during that year, as I can remember a couple of 11K performances (this year, only Clemens and Oswalt have reached double-figure K's).

    But... if you look at his minor league/major leauge #'s pre-injury... they were indeed worthy of Gammons praise. He had absolutely amazing stuff, and even baffled the Astros themselves, in a spring-training game, and he was only 19 years of age.

    He's still young... but he'll probably never get back to that magical level he was at in 2001. Stupid head-first slide....
     
  5. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

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    Nick: I don't remember exactly, but didn't Carlos go like halfway through his second year without ever having given up more than 2 runs in a game or something ridiculous like that? I thought this guy was going to be absolutely amazing during that run during he and Oswalt's rookie year. He, Oswalt, and Miller were going to carry this staff for the next 10 years and Redding just needed experience...

    I'm not familiar with Carlos' minor league career. Was he a hot pitching prospect and high pick or did he relatively surprise like Oswalt?
     
  6. rocketfat

    rocketfat Member

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    first of all, ortiz should be fired for printing that.

    second of all, if true, who do y'all think it is?

    i have narrowed it down to 2 of: biggio, clemens, kent, ausmus.

    these guys all strike me as people with jerky enough personalities to behave that way. i think biggio is a lock for one of them, and, i'm going with ausmus as a shocking #2. shocking because ausmus would be the first person i would send down, and i would have done so midway through last season.

    who do you guys think it was?
     
  7. Nick

    Nick Member

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    Carlos was the product of the Astros' Venezuelan academy (along with Richard Hidalgo, and Bobby Abreu).

    He was extremely lights out throughout the minors, striking out guys at an extremely alarming rate.

    He actually jumped straight to the majors from AA back in 2000, and he was all that was advertised and more for those three games... 95mph fastball, huge 12-6 curve ala Zito, and a left-hander.

    After he hurt the shoulder, he could still throw around 90-92, but his control was a little suspect. Now, since the surgery, he will rarely get it above 90... but he can still be effective if he spots his fastball well, because that curveball is still very very good.
     
  8. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Member
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    Why should he be fired for reporting something he has seen or heard? I do not agree with your assesment of the culprits, and to be honest I dont really care at this point.
     
  9. chrisjent

    chrisjent Member

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    Richard Hidalgo anyone?
     
  10. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    except they had no confidence in hidalgo. particulary not at the value they were paying him.
     
  11. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

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    And we had confidence in Tim "The Psychopath" Redding? The guy didn't even have confidence in himself.
     
  12. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    much cheaper price, Nike. and you gamble longer with pitchers than you do with hitters.
     
  13. mulletman

    mulletman Member

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    do you think he can eventually get some of that velocity back?
     
  14. caphorns

    caphorns Member

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    If I'm management, I'd get to the bottom of the clubhouse bs and nip it in the bud. You have to support your teammates even when they are down. Pathetic and embarassing.
     
  15. kevwun

    kevwun Member

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    He's in the high 80's, with a 90 or 91 thrown in every once in a while. It's hard to say imo. For a long time it looked like he might never get out of the low 80's.
     
  16. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

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    MadMax- I don't necessarily disagree...though I've never been a fan of Redding. I always felt in addition to not having the mentality, I never saw the pure stuff that a Roy, Wade, or pre-injury Carlos had. Or even look at a guy like Chad Harville, who has the stuff, but is working on the rest. I saw a guy with an impressive repertoire of MLB-level pitches but no "killer" pitch. A guy with his kind of repertoire and the right mentality can baffle hitters, but he did not have it. Reminds me of Chris Holt. At least Hidalgo had put together the big season(s).

    mulletman- Carlos' velocity reportedly was topping at around 80 earlier in the year. It's now topping out at 90, which can be serviceable. The thing I want to see is if his pitches still have that explosion towards the end- his fastball used to sit around 92-93, but with life at the end of it, similar to Dontrelle Willis (without the crazy delivery). I look forward to seeing him again- who knows, maybe he can breathe life back into this team.
     
  17. Nick

    Nick Member

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    I'm agreeing with NIKE's sentiments on Redding more and more. I never saw the explosive stuff, that allows some of the more premeir pitchers to make a mistake every now and then.

    Every mistake that Redding made got crushed. Most MLB pitchers have that problem. I would say he's much closer to average/below average (even in terms of his "stuff") than he is to a guy with loads of talent, and just mental problems.

    Everybody gets worried that he's another Curt Schilling in the making, and we're going to get burned. Well... first of all, Curt NEVER got the opportunities from us that we've given Tim. Had we thrown Curt out there as a starter two-three years in a row, we might have started to see the HOF Schilling that blossomed in Philly.

    Second of all, when you're a mid-market team that can't afford to just buy players year after year, failed projects like Redding can KILL you. Seriously... if there never was a Tim Redding, this organization might have been inclined to sign more effective veteran pitchers... like a Woody Williams, or the Steve Trachsel's or Jeff Suppans of the world. Granted, these guys are never going to blossom into "aces"... but you don't end up pulling your hair out, wondering when they're going to "get it."

    The organization was spoiled with guys like Roy, Wade, and Carlos coming up and just dominating. They thought that maybe they were just all products of a really great system, and it was only a matter of time before Tim became the same.

    Maybe... in the end... those guys just had arms that were blessed, and Tim's just not going to become the pitcher that everybody somehow thinks he can be.
     
  18. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    that makes sense, Nike. ultimately you were right then on redding. i looked at his minor league track record, and i remember it was pretty impressive. was hoping that would translate better to the bigs...guess it didn't. i really hoped he'd step up to be a legit 5th starter. oh, well.

    definitely excited about carlos, though!!!
     
  19. Puedlfor

    Puedlfor Member

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    And the mystery of the underperforming "team" is solved!

    Unless those two guys were two of - Lance Berkman, Roger Clemens, Roy Oswalt, Brad Lidge or Adam Everett - they got nothing to talk about.
     
  20. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    Or Biggio.
     

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