You have to feel for the Israeli people, being surrounded by hostile neighbors. Between the Arrow system & Patriot missles, it sounds like they may have found a way to protect themselves from the skies. Now, if they could just find a way to protect themselves from suicide bombers. This is a rather long article, but I found it to be very interesting. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/06/i...00&en=daf508c9e061138b&ei=5043&partner=excite Israel Set to Use New Missile Shield to Counter Scuds By MICHAEL R. GORDON ALMACHIM AIR FORCE BASE, Israel — Israel has deployed an operational missile defense and is ready to use it to protect Tel Aviv and other major population centers if they come under fire from Iraq's arsenal of Scud missiles. Known as the Arrow, the system is designed to avoid the pitfalls of the American Patriot system, which Israelis say had little success in stopping Iraq's Scud missile attacks during the Persian Gulf war in 1991. The program, which will cost more than $2 billion, is partly financed by the United States. One battery is already deployed here, and when the final interceptors and radars are installed about two years from now, Israel will be the first nation in the world to have a nationwide missile defense system. If the Bush administration follows through with its threats to attack Iraq, and Saddam Hussein lashes out at Israel, the Arrow could be put to the test in what would be an important trial of antimissile technology. "It would be the first time in history that an interceptor that was developed strictly to shoot down incoming missiles is used," a Pentagon official said. "The Patriot used in 1991 was designed to shoot down airplanes and modified to give it some kind of antimissile capability. But from the start, the Arrow was built to intercept ballistic missiles. The whole world will be watching to see what happens, and we will be watching." At the heavily guarded Palmachim air force base south of Tel Aviv, the Israeli military has been preparing for one of Israel's worst nightmares: a salvo of Al Hussein Scud missiles from Iraq, possibly carrying chemical or biological agents. The flight time for an Iraqi Scud to a target in Israel is only about six or seven minutes. Wearing gas masks and protective suits, Arrow crews practice reloading the Arrow missile launcher in an environment contaminated with chemical agents. In the fire control center, Israeli officers practice tracking and intercepting incoming Scud missiles under various attack scenarios. Unlike the Patriot system used in the gulf war, whose fire control system was essentially automated, the Israeli system allows military officers to decide when to fire the Arrow interceptor. At a firing site, huge launchers, each loaded with six Arrow interceptors, stand at the ready while Israel's Green Pine radar scans the skies. "We did a lot of testing, and most were successful," said Danny Peretz, the program manager for the Arrow at Israel Aircraft Industries, which makes the system. "But we know in our hearts and put it in the design that this weapon will be tested only in war." The Arrow has its origins in President Ronald Reagan's Strategic Defense Initiative. After Mr. Reagan began his "Star Wars" program, Israel joined in the research and development effort. At first there was considerable debate in Israel as to whether it really needed a missile shield, a dispute that was essentially ended during the gulf war when 39 Iraqi Scud missiles struck Israeli territory. "There were lot of arguments that Israel was so powerful that nobody would launch a missile at us," Mr. Peretz said. "But that all changed in 1991. Would anybody dare launch a missile at Israel? Well, somebody did." After the conflict, the Israeli government decided that it needed its own antimissile system and that the system needed to do a better job of stopping Scuds than the Patriot did. The Arrow program moved into high gear. The Arrow is what military experts call a theater defense system, meaning it is designed to intercept medium- and short-range missiles, not ocean-spanning intercontinental missiles. But because Israel is such a small country, the three batteries it plans to deploy will be a true nationwide system, protecting all of Israel's territory. The primary threats are from the east and north, and they are growing. Iraq has a small covert force of Al Hussein Scuds, according to American and British intelligence. Iran is on the verge of fielding the Shahab-3, which will have the range to strike Israel. Syria is also building up its force of Scud missiles. Israel has used the Green Pine radar to monitor tests of Syria's Scud-D missile. If Libya improves its missiles, Israel will face a potential threat from the west as well. Operated by the Israeli Air Force, one Arrow battery has been operational here at the Palmachim base for two years. The deployment of the second battery in central Israel was delayed when people who lived nearby complained that the Green Pine radar might endanger their health. The Israelis are trying to make the second battery operational before any American attack on Iraq. As a stopgap, the Arrow missile launchers from the second battery can be linked to Palmachim battery to improve its effectiveness, an Israeli Defense Ministry official said. "We can cover the heart of the country and the largest population centers in central Israel and in the north," said Lt. Col. Shahar Shohat, who commands the Arrow battery here. The United States paid about half of the $1.6 billion cost of developing the Arrow system, a Pentagon official said, while Israel paid the entire several hundred million dollars needed to develop the Green Pine radar, which tracks incoming missiles and guides Arrow interceptors toward their targets. The Arrow differs from the Patriot in several important respects. During the gulf war, the Patriot intercepted Iraq's Scud missiles toward the end of their flight. By then, the missiles — purchased from the Soviet Union, modified by the Iraqis to extend their range and called Al Hussein — often fell apart in flight and broke into pieces. This confused the Patriot system, which fired lots of interceptors at the pieces or sometimes was unable to discern which was the warhead and fired no interceptors at all. So the Israelis did it differently. They designed a system that is intended to intercept the Scud at a higher altitude. Destroying the warhead sooner, and farther from Israeli territory, is also prudent if the missile is carrying a chemical or biological warhead. "The Iraqi Al Hussein missiles separated when they got inside the atmosphere," Colonel Shohat said, "So if we intercept at a higher altitude, we don't have to deal with separation." The Arrow is not what the Pentagon calls a "hit to kill" system, meaning it would not destroy the incoming missile by smashing into it. Instead, it would maneuver close enough to the incoming Scud to destroy it with an explosive charge. Israeli officials said the Arrow had been integrated into the nation's military planning. If Iraq staged an attack, the first warning would come from the Americans, whose spy satellites can detect the heat from rocket plumes as soon as they ignite. The information would be quickly transmitted to Israel. Soon after, Israel's Green Pine radar would begin to track the Scud, probably in the ascent phase. Using tracking data from Green Pine, Israeli officers would determine the probable launching point. That information could be immediately transmitted to the Israeli Air Force, which could carry out airstrikes on the Iraqi Scud launchers, which are mobile, before they could move or shoot again. Data from the Green Pine system would also be used to estimate the point of impact. Based on this information, Israel's Home Front Command would sound an alert in the target area. Israeli citizens would have several minutes to go to their shelters and put on gas masks. Then the Arrow batteries would swing into action. Interceptors would be fired toward the incoming Scuds. The Arrows would be directed toward their target by Green Pine and would then close in using sensors that detect the Scud's heat. Then the Arrow's warhead would explode, destroying the Scud warhead. But the Israelis are still in a touchy situation. They have a limited supply of Arrows, which cost $3 million a missile. Boeing is teaming up with Israel to increase the production of interceptors. But the additional interceptors will not begin to become available for about two years, too late if war breaks out soon between the United States and Iraq but in time for possible new threats from Iran and Syria. So Israel must husband its inventory of Arrow interceptors. That is one reason why the Arrow, unlike the Patriot, does not rely exclusively on computers to make the decision to fire. An Israeli officer can override the computer and decide whether to fire and with how many interceptors. "The only sure thing in war is that the unexpected is going to happen," Mr. Peretz said. "You cannot build a weapon system that will rely on a computer only. You have to be able to work manually as well as fully automatic." Any Scud that eluded the Arrow could be attacked by Patriot systems, which work at lower altitudes and are also part of the Israeli arsenal. The United States is also likely to send additional Patriot batteries in the event of war. They will be under the command of Colonel Shohat, who was trained in air defense at the United States Army base at Fort Bliss, Tex. Thus, the Israelis now have a two-track capability: a high-altitude defense using the Arrow and a lower-tier Patriot. The initial Arrow test failed when there was a computer mishap and the interceptor was blown up five seconds into the test by the range safety officer. The two next tests also failed. But Israeli officials said eight of the last nine tests had been successful. Still, officials acknowledge, the real test will be in war. "If this war is going to emerge it, could be a test case of 14 years of development by a lot of people," Mr. Peretz said.
Oh, don't worry, they are already wasting billions of dollars on a program that has been flawed since its creation. Nightline did a story on it. The missle that was supposed to intercept the fake nuclear warhead was tricked simply by the deployment of baloons around the bomb. So, so sad.
You're right Drew. We shouldn't waste money on that stupid defense program. Instead, I propose cutting all military funding and transfering those funds to 35 useless democratic welfare programs.
You're right Drew. We shouldn't waste money on that stupid defense program. Instead, I propose cutting all military funding and transfering those funds to 35 useless democratic welfare programs. Or we can spend that money to pay back the debt we have accumulated over the last 20 years which is costing us $200 billion per year now in interest payments. But I guess you'd rather spend it on something that will likely never work just so you can feel better about your safety, until of course a missile actually does come at us and the system flops. But hey, the military industrial complex needs those types of subsidies.
A. The missile defense system has yet to be battle tested B. What on earth makes you think Nightline has any clue as to the effectiveness of military programs Dems have been trying to kill this program before it got off of a piece of paper... do you think those people went away over time? no.. even if they are correct, and the system doesn't work, it's a bit premature to say it'll never work The M-16 rifle was an awful weapon when it was first deployed, but a few tweaks and it's the best rifle the U.S. military has every deployed The Bradley fighting vehicle was seriously flawed when it was designed, and now it's one of the most important parts of the infantry It's good that Major is an expert on the subject, and we can take his word that it'll never work and spend the money on dem handout programs Cuz if there is one thing Republicans and Democrats have in common, it's that they BOTH like to spend our money
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/program/arrow.htm it is a terrific program. though because israel is a much smaller country facing a limited type of threat. (low-tech scuds), the program's specifications and requirements were quite clear from the beginning. Hence its good performance in tests and much earlier availability vis-a-vis US's own THAAD and TMD. (also a testament to the stregnth of Israel's arms industry). how about getting this for taiwan? there is absolutely NO country in the world (outside Iraq) that needs missile defense more than taiwan. china has positioned some 450 missiles (and growing) targeting taiwan along her east coast, and has expressed every intention to use them against the taiwanese people if we tick them off. other nations have already expressed interest too. fingers crossed!
The Patriot missile defensive system failed to hit a single Scud during the Gulf war. All of the reported hits were actually failures of the scuds do to their poor design and construction.
Major apparently thinks his moniker on the BBS translates to him having some intimate knowledge of high-tech military programs. How do you know the system won't work? Don't be serious about paying the national debt. How much of a dent can military spending have on 30 trillion dollars or whatever it is.
Missile defense systems have been tested and tweaked for 20 years. The real success of the programs have been in radar guidance, improved chemical lasers, and many other exotic technologies. The major problem is bringing these high end techs. together when they are difficult to operate individually. We are at least 10-20 years from a fully operational system. The budget for the system presented to the public is a shadow of what is actually being spent. This funding would be put to better use by increasing the security at shipping container ports, which are by far the most likely method of nuclear attack on the US. One of the chemical laser systems developed during the space based missile program is currently being placed in a modified 747 and will begin testing within the next few years.
Don't believe for a second that what they are testing is actually the way the missile defense system is going to work. It's all just a mis-information campaign. You don't think for a second that the governemt would tell potential enemies how the system works? Remember, the F-117 fighter and B-2 bomber were super-secret for over 10 years. The only reason we know about them today is because 1) they have come out with something newer and better that is still secret and 2) so they can be deployed. As for the missile defense, I think there are a couple of possibilities: 1) that there already is a missile defense system in place and what you see in the news is mis-information to distract potential enemies on how it actually works; 2) there is no missile defense system at all and the money is actually being appropriated for something comepletely different. Remember, even Clinton supported this program and he had information that you and I don't have. This is another bit of mis-information as well. Remember during the Gulf War the Patriots were lauded as being great? Then after the war there was much press about how they really sucked? Both pieces of information were propoganda. I knew a guy who worked on a Patriot battery during the Gulf War and I asked him how good they really were. He simply said, "I can't tell you. But they are better then you think." I have no reason to believe this guy was pulling my leg. Mis-information is a strategy that militaries have used time and time again for centuries. One of the reasons that D-Day was so successful was because Hitler was convinced the invasion would occur at Calais. The allies made up a division and sent Patton the Dover to "command" it. They even had Goodyear (or Goodrich) make inflatable tanks and stuff to trick arial surveilance. Remember not too long ago when the entire Iraq invasion plan was "leaked" to the New York Times? Once again, mis-information to convince Saddam we mean business. You have to be very carefull when it comes to taking what the military says at face value.
This is true the mis-information was in their missile strike capabilities. The Patriot system of the early 90's did not have the necessary guidance technology for success outside of controlled tests. The United States and Russia have both had missile shields for decades. Upon confirmation of nuclear attack both countries would begin detonating high yield thermo-nukes in the lower and upper atmosphere. In testing Russia detonated a Hydrogen nuke so powerful in the upper atmosphere that disrupted the Van Allen belts for several years. Our current missile shield is more of a technology test platform, with a budget that is for the most part unlimited.
Well, since Nomar is incredibly easy to shoot down, I suggest that we launch him at the missile defense system. You know, just as a simple test. Wait, let me save you the trouble, Nomar: There ya go.
"The United States paid about half of the $1.6 billion cost of developing the Arrow system, a Pentagon official said, while Israel paid the entire several hundred million dollars needed to develop the Green Pine radar, which tracks incoming missiles and guides Arrow interceptors toward their targets." Why the hell are we paying half of their Arrow system? We waste so much money annually on Israel.... Its pathetic. Too bad the Palestinians didn't have missle defense system yesterday when Israel launched a missle into a neighborhood and killed around 15 people and injured close to 100 people. Its ok though...they were just Palestinians
I'm pretty sure that we can have access to this arrow system as well. If we split the cost, we can both get the system for half as much money.
You can go to hell for immature posts like this. During the Gulf War, Israel was peppered by scuds. The U.S. asked them not to retalliate and they DIDNT. If we attack Iraq, Israel will be able to defend herself without getting in the way of U.S. operations. Again, your hate for Israel shines.
Post of the year. I have never read anything with such wit and hilarity packed into so few lines. B-Bob is truly a modern day master of the comedic arts. I salute you sir.
