Isaiah Thomas is about to show the world he's on AI's level

Iverson's efficiency took a big leap when the NBA introduced the hand-check penalty in 2004-05. In today's era of spacing, Prime Iverson would be a pretty unstoppable force.

While it helps that Thomas can shoot, IMO if you dropped him into the NBA of 15 years ago he'd be taking far fewer trips to the FT line and his efficiency in the paint would decline dramatically. I don't think he's on the same level.

 

Every time this "hand check" reasoning gets mentioned, I feel compelled to point out that was offset by eradication of illegal defense. You can't clear out one side of the court anymore with ISO, like Rudy did with Francis.

Defenses have gotten progressively more sophisticated and trained to take advantage of no illegal defense rules over the years. The way defenses play Westbrook is the way AI would be defended, too. They often bring help over in ways that would be ruled illegal defense in the past. The spacing in today's era is not due to no hand-checking, it is due to offenses needed to adapt to no illegal defense and clogged lanes -- culminating in a long run of Detroit running 3 bigs, SAS featuring two 7ftrs, as well as LA with Bynum and Gasol, and Boston with Garnett/Perkins.

NBA offenses needed to get the lane open, and they had to get more shooters out there to do it ... thus a premium on 3 and D and having bigs learn to shoot at earlier ages can be seen as reactionary and much as "oh, why did it take us so long to figure out the math geeks were right. Why did we always think bigs were the key."

We should be able to compare AI to Thomas without saying the game is easier due to hand checking, when no illegal defense offsets that by giving defenses much more options.

pet peeve over ... excuse me ... go about your discussion now.

 

AI was faster, could jump higher, accelerate quicker, but both are crafty undersized guys. If Isaiah keeps putting up these numbers or higher, I'd say yeah, they're in the same ballpark, but I doubt it. Isaiah has improved every year in the league while AI came out swinging and kept up the high level for 14 years. I don't see Isaiah lasting that long, but I like what he's doing. Fun to watch.

He's his own man. Everyday a star is born. Clap for em'.

 

isaiah thomas has been better than iverson's prime for a couple of years now.
it would be more appropriate if we compare thomas to jason kidd or steven nash.

 

I'm not as convinced as you that changing the illegal defense rules (which teams like the Sonics had ignored for years anyway) and making it illegal to ride a ball-handler's hip necessarily offset each other equally, at least with regards to this example. Iverson's least efficient years were from 2001-04, after the illegal defense rules changed and before hand-checking became illegal. A lot of today's players, including Thomas, would have really struggled in that period IMO. After they disallowed the hand-check, AI put up career #s, then he got old. So if you're going to compare the two, compare Thomas to 2004-08 Iverson, and consider that Isaiah is playing in a era with fewer clogged lanes (which I didn't attribute to the hand-check penalty, btw).

 

Let me know when Thomas carries his team to the finals. Then I can make a comparison.

 

He is on 'He look ok' level!

 

I think it's unfair to compare IVerson statistically to players today because of the expectations put on him and simply the way basketball was player back then.

Iverson in today's pace and space era would be absurd. Good luck keeping him out of the paint ever.

 

You do realize AI's ppg totals were racked up in 42+ mpg season....8-9 mpg more than WB and Thomas this year.

And I'm not convinced it was so easy to put a hand on Iverson. People backed off him. You make it sound like there was a hand on his hip every play. Show me where in this video ppl are hanging on his hip. And it isn't just this video. You can look at the LAL Finals vids.



Now, I am convinced they eradicated illegal defense mainly because of Iverson, Stackhouse and Rudy were making shambles of it with wing ISOs. Stackhouse had just scored 30ppg the year they ended it. He never reached 22 ppg again.

I am also convinced defenses play Westbrook differently than they played Iverson for quite awhile. They indeed bring help over in illegal defense position. Took awhile for the new defensive schemes to spread through the league. It didn't happen over night. You mention Seattle breaking the rules. Well, teams are breaking the defensive 3 second rule all the time now, too. And Seattle was against post play. Illegal defenses against guard play was much harder to hide or cheat.

You make it sound like AI is light years ahead of WB, too, at getting in the lane. To defend AI, you move a help defender into what previously was illegal defense position, like they do with Westbrook and Harden. ICE Defense on PnRs is also new to the league, and not really even illegal in old rules...just new stuff.

Also, you do realize AI's ppg totals were racked up in 42+ mpg season....8-9 mpg more than WB and Thomas.

that said: AI is better than Thomas. I just don't see AI running circles around a league that has no illegal defense rules, anymore than WB is.

 

The way he is playing now, IT is better than AI ever was.

 

AI had a nice shot. He didn't have to be at the rim every time
So the Lack of illegal defenses might have slowed him a bit but not much

Rocket River

 

Watching the video . .. I think the biggest thing to slow him down would be flopping
The Offensive fouls would eat AI alive as defenders just fell down

Rocket River

 

I don't really disagree. But the game was a little slower paced. I also think offenses weren't as evolved and as friendly for an Iverson type. But I do agree that Westbrook would be a good comparison

 

iverson would make for better youtube vids, since he had better handles than thomas

 

I doubt it. If flopping doesn't slow down guys like Harden and Westbrook, it wouldn't slow down Iverson.

 

AI carried his team to the finals. It would be nice if IT could get his team out of the 1st round.

 

Iverson had seasons were he shot under 40% from the field and multiple seasons shooting under 30% from three and in those years he still put up over 25 ppg.

That's not a compliment that's bad chucking.

IT season this year statistically is better than iversons best season it's really not close. Unless your just going to look at box score numbers and not how they got those numbers.

 

Well, to be fair, Iverson didn't have to face LeBron in the East.

 

Iverson lost in the first round a lot.

Also Iverson only had one season were he lead philly to 50+ wins.

They made the playoffs 6x while he was there finishing with the 4th seed twice and the 6th seed twice and 7th seed the last year they made the playoffs other than that year they won 56 games and went to the finals as the 1 seed.

Philly also missed the playoffs 3 out of the last 4 years he was there.

Iverson was a good entertaining player was very polarizing but he didn't have all this team success and deep playoff runs like some of you think. They got bounced in the 1st round 3x lost in the 2nd two times and made the finals another. They also missed the playoffs altogether 5x while he was there.