Is Yao being starved on offense?

Honestly, I didn't see it from Francis as much as I did from Cuttino last night. I was <B>almost</B> hoping for a loss so that people wouldn't be able to gloss over the horrible performance by Cuttino on the offensive end. I counted at least five pick and rolls where he absolutely ignored a wide open Yao or Cato, at least two horrendous passes to Yao, and at least one time where he completely ignored Yao after he worked hard to get nearly perfect position. This was only in the second half.

 

I agree Rocketman95, Cat is getting on my nerves. He isn't a smart player, end of story. How many times must the same thing happen? What is it going to take?

Another thing, I think we should draft a good SG this offseason. Cat makes awful choices every night, yet we have no one who can step in his place.

 

I wouldn't call Cuttino's performance on offense "horrible." After all, the guy DID score 24 and grab 6 boards.

In addition, while he may be the biggest black hole we've had since Kevin Willis was in his Rox heyday, Cuttino's 6 assists last night were his season high.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not one those "defend-Cuttino-at-all-costs" guys (are there even any of those?), but the night he drops a season high 6 dimes might not be the time to start complaining about him not passing enough.

Yao Ming's offense will come--he's going to get his one way or the other. Dude still contributing mightily last night, if you ask me. His line might not jump out at you--or it may--(10 pts., 6 rbs., 5 blks., 2 asts., & 2 stls.), but he was a FORCE on the defensive end. In other words, it wasn't just the Celtics' offense that cause them to jack up 33 long-range bombs.

And by the way--WE WON! Enjoy this win, because the next game (and the three after that) are not going to be cakewalks.

 

Boston did do a great job of suffocating Yao on defense for the early part of the game. Most of the time he had a guy in front and a guy behind him. I think that could be a big part of why he only had 7 shot attempts.

I have no problem with Yao getting just 7 shot attempts IF and only IF the team is shooting above 50%. The extra attention Yao gets creates a lot of easy shots for the rest of the team, and if they take advantage of that, I don't mind if Yao doesn't get his shots. I only hope that when Yao is single teamed they get him the ball 90% of the time.

B

 

rH?? Did you read the Chronicle? Read the Lopez article. Boston was all over Yao. Boston controlled the amount of times we could get the ball to Yao.

Yao was even quoted as saying that the offense last night was to use Yao to suck in the defense and set up everyone else. The Rockets have never faced a defensive game plan from an opponent like that before.

here's the article:

<blockquote><hr>Yao's play eye-opening
By JOHN P. LOPEZ
Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle

Yao Ming's greatest potential might be that he can be artistic, without being pretty as a picture.

We've seen the artistic side of Yao, and it has indeed been something to behold -- soft, floating jump shots, graceful moves under the basket, beautiful no-look passes.

It's all been so impressive and spectacular. Even Yao has admitted that his rise to superstardom has come quicker than expected.

It's been like watching a Larry Bird in his early days, or a young, raw Hakeem Olajuwon discovering something new almost every night he took the floor.

Unless you haven't heard half the league humming a few bars of the Yao Ming song, you know there's just something about this kid that makes you want to watch his every move.

But if you were watching Monday's entertaining 101-92 victory over the Celtics, you saw something else.

You saw the reason the Rockets drafted Yao. You saw why all the Sportscenter-worthy moments Yao has provided so far have been only a nice little bonus, like digging for iron ore and finding gold.

<b>"(The Celtics) completely committed to Yao, sending a guy in front and a guy in back of him," coach Rudy Tomjanovich said of the Rockets' throwback performance. "We were having a hard time just getting it in because ... nobody's ever done that with him."</b>

It was a throwback not just because both teams decided to shoot the ball -- the Rockets' hitting 50 percent of their shots, and the Celtics 42.4 percent on 33 3-point attempts. It was, because that easily could have been Olajuwon drawing so much attention and so many double-teams on the low post, and Kenny Smith and Sam Cassell knocking down clutch shot after clutch shot.

This was the iron-ore side of Yao, not the golden side, shining through. Nothing he did was dreamy or beautiful, except perhaps one nice touch pass to Juaquin Hawkins early-on.

But Yao earned every bit of his 10 points, six rebounds and five blocks, walking off the floor with scratches on the backs of both his arms, and teammates slapping his back for a job well done.

As much as the Rockets clearly have tapped into a gold mine with Yao's production, flair and personality exceeding all expectations, this is what they hoped to get out of him -- and will need from him, come playoff time.

The Celtics' inside presence might not be invisible, but it's close, with less-than-classic big men Tony Battie and Vin Baker manning the middle. They clearly did not want Yao to beat them with a double-double in the 30-20 range.

So they doubled-teamed him from the start, as most teams will do in the future, and Yao made them pay by playing big, swinging the ball to the open man on the perimeter and making plays that don't show up on the box score.

The heroes of the night were Steve Francis (26 points) and Cuttino Mobley (24), but they knew exactly why the shots were so open and the basket looked so big.

"Yao's been consistent with the way he's been playing," Francis said. "That's helped everybody. They were doubling him, tripling him. That opened up a lot of things."

Said Tomjanovich: "It was just smart basketball. We just kept saying, `Look in to Yao, get them sucked in, swing it and get 'em on the weakside."

Suffice it to say Yao's nicked knee is as healthy as his reputation for being a potentially dominating inside presence.

Early on Monday, Yao hadn't even touched the ball in nine minutes of action, but made a difference drawing in the defense, rolling off screens and bringing defenders with him and setting up his teammates for wide-open looks. The Rockets bolted to an 18-10 lead as a result.

Through the middle stages when the Rockets led by as much as 15 points, Yao scored most of his points, tossed a pair of assists to Juaquin Hawkins and Francis and earned four of his five blocked shots.

Late, after the Celtics pulled to within two points, Yao again was the center of attention, and Mobley and Francis took advantage, combining to score 13 consecutive points from the perimeter and putting away the game.

<b>"That's something I should do," Yao said. "In this kind of situation, my best use is to suck in the defense and get open shots for my teammates.</b>

"Not only that, but I can get a lot more rebounds. The only thing tonight is, Steve and Cuttino shot so well, I didn't get as many rebounds."

Naturally, the Rockets will take the spectacular from this spectacular talent. But that's not what they envisioned when they drafted this 7-5 center with wonderful post moves, keen court vision and great passing abilities.

They envisioned this: 10 points, five blocks, six rebounds, two assists and as much a reason for the win as the All-Star caliber guards. <hr></blockquote>

 

RM95, it sickens me to hear you say, "I was hoping for a loss just so the BBS would bash Mobley."

WTF????????????????????

imo, Yao wasn't that open on those pick-n-rolls RM95 seems to have screamed at the TV about. He definitely could have tried some, though. What it looked like to me is another example of how Mobley is a contrived playmaker. He gets his orders and tries to execute those without much ability to see the defense react in another way (or to improvise). He looked like he was only focused in penetration and kick, and making the whip, hook pass on a PnR to Yao was not something he was looking for versus how he got his other 6 assists.

The game plan quickly became penetrate and kick. That is Cats job. He repeated it "Penetrate, Kick" 3 times in Feigen's article. The PnR was described by Yao and Rudy as more a decoy to suck the defense to Yao, and it damn sure did. Those PnR passes you are describing looked pretty difficult to pull off from my seats.

 

heypartner is the "defend Cuttino at all cost" crowd .

Honestly, Yao puts a good face on it. The Houston media puts a good face on it. But nearly every team that we play's announcers are mystified at how little Houston manages to get him the ball. I think it's a combination of:

1. Other teams trying very hard to stop Yao from getting the ball.
2. Yao's getting out-muscled in the post.
3. The Rocket's players, specifically Mobley, though others as well, preferring to play on the perimeter.

I'd rank #1 as above either #2 or #3, but #3 sadly, does exist. It didn't happen as often in the Boston game, but I did notice twice that Yao had good low post solution, and the ball was swung around anyway. And if I noticed two, there were probably more that I didn't.

Look at it this way: has anybody else ever seen a true low post threat get so few touches? I sure as hell haven't. And Yao's not the first big man to have a comparatively weak upper body. Somehow or other, Yao has to get more touches. He can very obviously hit the 18 footer, so one solution is simply to give the ball to him further out.

I'm sure that next year, when he's stronger and less fatigued, he'll get the ball more. But I think it's just as silly to ignore the fact that certain players on the Rockets avoid Yao in the post as to claim that's the only reason for his lack of touches.

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

This entire season will be a "get used to Ming" year. His skills are not what need work like most rookies (if you can call him that), instead what needs work is the Rockets themselves and how they get him the ball.

A few times they dished it to him and passed it to his chest, which was stolen. He's 7-5, you have to throw it HIGH. We've seen the Rocks and we've seen Yao and now we know who is the slow learner and who is the fast learner.

But Cat, man. He's getting close to being a "veteran" yet still makes stupid decisions with the ball. Until he wises up, I'll keep b****ing. Steve and Cat need to get it in their heads that you can't win games based on athleticism alone, just ask MJ.

Hey, I love the Rocks, but I just get frustrated seeing how close they are to being great yet to only make the same mistakes year after year. And I mean dynasty great...

 

Thanks for misquoting me.

I understand that the Celtics did an amazing job of guarding Yao last night, but whether your Cat colored glasses can see it or not, he missed Yao and Cato five times in the second half on <B>wide open</B> rolls to the basket. Then on one of the few times Yao did get good position, he ignored him and passed to the top of the key.

Mobley is not a very smart player, and he proved it last night.

 

HP, I think you have to understand much of the swelling of discontent on this subject comes about because we're watching the games on TV...

... and as another poster just alluded to it, the announcer (EVERY SET OF ANNOUNCERS) on the DirecTV broadcasts (almost never the Houston guys, always the opposing team's) constantly marvel at the Rockets offense. This isn't a one-time observation, this isn't a qualified exception.

It is a constant. Against Atlanta. Against Memphis. Against Minnesota. Last night against Boston. Some of the (paraphrased from memory) quotes heard last night from the Boston announcers: "They're missin' a wide open Yao Ming on the pick-n-roll!" "Any team that doesn't feed Yao Ming more in these situations is a DUMB team!" "We've gone 4 minutes without saying Yao's name; what are the Rockets doing?" "This team really needs to learn how to play with Yao on offense."

That last line, in particular, has got to be the most oft-repeated comment this season... muttered in surprise as Yao goes 9 minutes without taking a single shot.

Now, these other guys aren't the coaching staff. They might not even be especially smart. (Although many ARE former players, and are obviously around the game on a constant basis.) But for those of us who are fed a regular diet of this, it's pretty natural to ask. Well, why the hell CAN'T they feed Yao on the pick'n rolls? Ever!?

 

RM95, I don't think a misquoted you. The loss that you were thinking about that would prevent people from glossing over a horrible 9-18 and 6 assist performance...that loss didn't happen, and the PnR didn't happen like you described. Quit worrying about the tinted glasses of others that make them gloss over things...it will make your head all foggy like.

reread what i said, which is exactly what haven said. I said Mobley was running contrived PnRs to look for the kick. Did I say he made the best decision at every point? No. Did I say he should have tried the whip hook pass over his head to a rolling Yao. Yes. But penetrate and kick is far from being a mistake, especially when the coaches were clearly preaching that, and were describing Yao as a vortex that was "sucking in the defense." We all wish Cat and Francis could get an order from the bench and improvise when the defense does something else. But that penetrate and kick won the game.

I don't see how people add up in their mind that a player's contrived playmaking (Coach said to penetrate and kick...OK, Coach) means he's "avoiding" or "starving" Yao. Why the hate, RM95? He did make some kicks over a crowd to the weakside. That is a tough pass to see the crowd collapse on Yao to know the skip pass is open. When we stare at Yao and see him open for a split second, we expect a quick pass around Paul Pierce's head, and we demand nothing less. Well, that's a hell of a pass. I can't blame Mobley or the coaches to look for a simpler pass that allows the whole team to contribute in a simple manner that is almost guaranteed to beat that overcommitted defense.

I'd love to see Mobley and Francis see the whip pass and the skip and do it perfectly every time, but I don't mind seeing them default to simplicity as well.

Don't worry guys. The double high post PnR was not run last night. That's the one that gets simple passes to Yao over and over.

That skip pass is tough to do. Just because Mobley is incapable of evaluating the court fully and seeing all options <b>while he is penetrating or has Paul Pierce in his face</b> doesn't mean he is trying to find teammates.

 

It was damn near impossible to get the ball into Yao last night. There was two people on him every time. The Rockets even tried to force it into him a couple of times which led to turnovers. Eventually, all teams are going to start doing this. I have three things the Rockets could improve on to get Ming the ball. 1.) off-the-ball screens on Mings man, to free him up enough to get open for a pass. 2.) Give the entry pass quickly right when Ming gets to the spot, don't pumpfake or hesitate because the man will get in front of him. 3.) Yao's just got to do a better job of getting position. It was a little too easy for Battie to push him aside and front him.

Of course, if teams do pay that much attention to Ming, the Rockets have to make them pay. For as many double and triple teams asthe Celtics put on Yao, we should have been getting more open shots. There was a few times the Rockets swung the ball around good last night, but they need to do it more often.

 

Cat is HP's favorite player. Then Kenny (he's still bitter toward EG and Taylor). Color everything he says with that. He's also watching the games way up close, and doesn't hear what you do on tv, or see the whole court, like us nosebleeders or tv chumps . I still love his posts, they're always fun to read, with lots of interesting insight. And he's a great cook. But even my six year old gets frustrated with the open Yao not getting the ball. "Dad, look, there's Yao, alone!" "Get it to Yao!" "Daddy, why'd they do that?" I don't know, sweetheart, maybe they can't see him. "But Yao is Big, Daddy. I see him. I can see Yao." Ok, girl, good for you.

 

heech,

<blockquote><hr>Well, why the hell CAN'T they feed Yao on the pick'n rolls? Ever!?<hr></blockquote>You really believe that statement? I got nothing for you then.

 

Yes, you did and yes, it did. Unless of course it was a different 7'5" Chinese center that was on my television screen.

 

Poor Cuttino, the guy not only have to deal with the darkness in his head while playing bball, but now is under the scrutiny of his fans.
Example of his pain inside his head while setting up a play on the court:

Cuttino: "Ok Rudy has set up a play for us to pass the ball to Yao in the post."
Darkness: " Wait, but the guy guarding us is 2 feet away, we can shoot ourself!"
Cuttino: "But, but, Rudy said to set up Yao on this play."
Darkness: "NO! Rudy is an idiot, he's the reason we are not allstars."
Cuttino: "But, but, but Rudy is our friend, our friend..he helped us, he drafted us"
Darkness: "That was 4 years ago, and he forced us to play the point and made us pass the 'Precious' over and over and over"
Cuttino: "O, yeah, my precious, my precious, he did, he did..."
Darkness: "That's right, Rudy is evil, evil!!! keep the precious and we shall be allstars, ALLSTARS!!!!"
Cuttino: "Yes, ALLSTAR, the precious should bring me power... yes, YES!!"

Meanwhile, on the court, with Yao finally establishing position, Cuttino shoots with two defenders on him and bricks....Naive Yao goes over to Cuttino, gives him a pat on the back and says" It's ok, we'll eventually work out our chemistry and passing will become easier"...little does he know, little does he know about Poor Smeag....I mean Cuttino and his Darkness

 

pasox2...my seats are upper bowl, center. I'm not way up close. I was that one game (miniskirt level) that I told you about at New Years. It is the announcers that you are listening to who are too close and sitting at knee level with coaches blocking their view and getting paid to blabber to avoid dead air at all costs.

But come on, you absolutely hate rudy, kenny and cat ... and you're telling me I'm biased ... pot kettle black.

btw: whoever said I disagree with ex-player announcers anyhow, or your pretty little girl.

GIVE YAO THE DAMN BALL

But you know, that is really Francis's problem. The only reason Mobley starts running the PG plays is often because Francis is not getting the damn ball to yao.

I gotta tell ya though, pasox2. The holy grail is not a simple PnR in this league. It won't work over time with these zones. I am really loving the double high post...that has been a great success...and we've seen it run ten times in a row a lot.

cheer up guys. The PnR is not the lesson we are trying to learn this year.