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Is this guy a nut job or what? (Iranian President)

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by zoork34, Dec 14, 2005.

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  1. zoork34

    zoork34 Member

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    http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/14/iran.israel/index.html

    Iran leader: Holocaust a 'myth'

    TEHRAN, Iran (CNN) -- Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has described the Holocaust as "a myth" and suggested that Israel be moved to Europe, the United States, Canada or Alaska.

    Germany, the United States, the European Commission and Israel condemned the remark, with German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier calling it "shocking and unacceptable."

    The Israeli government said Ahmadinejad's regime had "a distorted sense of reality."

    Ahmadinejad sparked widespread international condemnation in October when he called for Israel to be "wiped off the map."

    Last week he also expressed doubt about the killing by the Nazis of six million Jews during World War II, but Wednesday was the first occasion when he said in public that the Holocaust was a myth.

    "They have invented a myth that Jews were massacred and place this above God, religions and the prophets," Ahmadinejad said in a speech to thousands of people in the Iranian city of Zahedan, according to a report on Wednesday from Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting (IRIB).

    "The West has given more significance to the myth of the genocide of the Jews, even more significant than God, religion, and the prophets," he said. "(It) deals very severely with those who deny this myth but does not do anything to those who deny God, religion, and the prophet."

    "If you have burned the Jews, why don't you give a piece of Europe, the United States, Canada or Alaska to Israel," Ahmadinejad said.

    "Our question is, if you have committed this huge crime, why should the innocent nation of Palestine pay for this crime?"

    Mark Regev, spokesman for Israel's Foreign Ministry, said: "The combination of a regime with a radical agenda, together with a distorted sense of reality that is clearly indicated by the statements we heard today, put together with nuclear weapons -- I think that's a dangerous combination that no one in the international community can accept."

    "What the Iranian president has shown us today is that he is clearly outside the international consensus, he is clearly outside international norms and international legitimacy, and in so doing he has shown the Iranian government for what it is -- a rogue regime opposed to peace and stability and a threat to all its neighboring countries," Regev said.

    In addition, Ahmadinejad spoke in Zahedan about Iran's nuclear program, maintaining it will insist on its right to develop nuclear energy for peaceful purposes.

    "Those who themselves produce nuclear arms should not raise hue and cry against those who only want to gain access to nuclear technology for peaceful purposes," he said, according to a report from the Islamic Republic News Agency (IRNA).

    "Countries which have arsenals of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons which can be used against other countries at their whim and those who supplied the Baathist regime with (chemical) weapons that killed thousands of innocent Iranians ... now go to all lengths to block Iran from gaining access to peaceful nuclear technology," he said.

    "We are sure they have criminal intentions, and there was never any doubt that they were piling weapons of mass destruction to be used against less powerful nations," Ahmadinejad said, according to the IRNA report.
    'Completely unacceptable'

    In Berlin, Foreign Minister Steinmeier said his government had summoned the Iranian charge d'affaires to make "unmistakably clear" its displeasure, The Associated Press said.

    "I cannot hide the fact that this weighs on bilateral relations and on the chances for the negotiation process, the so-called nuclear dossier," Steinmeier said, referring to European talks with Iran on its nuclear program. (Full story)

    The White House said the comments underlined the need for the international community to work together to "keep Iran from developing nuclear weapons".

    "All responsible leaders in the international community recognise how outrageous such comments are," spokesman Scott McClellan said, Reuters reported.

    In Brussels, European Commission spokeswoman Emma Udwin said such "completely unacceptable" comments would do nothing to restore confidence in Iran.

    "We feel very strongly that Iran is damaging its own interests with these kind of remarks," she added.

    Ahmadinejad's views contrast with those of his moderate predecessor Mohammad Khatami, who urged a dialogue among civilizations.

    Some conservative allies in Iran have criticized the current president's remarks, AP reported, because they fear he is damaging the country's image.

    Moderates have urged the ruling Islamic establishment to rein in the president. But Supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei supports Ahmadinejad's calls for Israel's elimination, the news agency added.

    Tehran-based political analyst Mahmoud Alinejad said the president could feel his speeches strengthen Iran diplomatically.

    "There is a perception, based on past experience that only when Iran threatens and pushes does the West back off," he told Reuters.

    CNN producer Michal Zippori contributed to this report.

    Copyright 2005 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report.
     
    #1 zoork34, Dec 14, 2005
  2. droxford

    droxford Member

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    #2 droxford, Dec 14, 2005
  3. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    I am an Iraninan-American, and I am pro-Iranians. My initial analysis was this guy would be alright. However, in recent weeks, he has shown himself to be absolutely delusional.
     
    #3 Ubiquitin, Dec 14, 2005
  4. SWTsig

    SWTsig Member

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    me too, well at least half iranian. but this guy is clearly a whacko; unfortunate that such a terrible theocracy rules a country that has so much potential and yearning for change.
     
    #4 SWTsig, Dec 14, 2005
  5. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    Nutjob? At the very least, this guy is a nutjob!
     
    #5 RocketMan Tex, Dec 14, 2005
  6. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    That's what happens when you fail to empower the moderates and the progressive (Khatami).

    This guy seems to be doing this on purpose, IMO, not sure what he's trying to gain from it.
     
    #6 tigermission1, Dec 14, 2005
  7. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    To be fair, the moderates were empowered and tried to push through reforms when they controlled the majlis and the presidency. However, the guardian council routinely vetoed many progressive reforms and really shut down the effectiveness of the government. Also, they ended up banning many moderates and reformists from running again for parliament.

    As a result, we have Iranian youth who are disillusioned and are simply more politically apathetic. Voter turnout in the last election was way down and many have simply given up. And when you're churning out random idiots like this clown then it only gets worse. I was hoping that rafsanjani would win the last election and i'm still skeptical of the voting that was free from "outside influences" during the last election.

    The US could make some changes to do its part to help speed the transition to a more moderate nation but that probably won't be happening any time soon.
     
    #7 geeimsobored, Dec 14, 2005
  8. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Member
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    The guy is a clown and divorced from reality.
     
    #8 FranchiseBlade, Dec 14, 2005
  9. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    No, he seems like a pretty knowledgeable person, he's not doing this out of ignorance, he's doing it on purpose and trying to gain something from it, I am not sure what it is, but it could be as simple as gaining 'cred' with some of the extreme elements in the Supreme Council, or it could be that he's trying to piss off the Israelis or something, I am just not exactly seeing what he's trying to gain from this.

    I don't think it's because he's divorced from reality. That's all I am saying...
     
    #9 tigermission1, Dec 14, 2005
  10. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Member
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    Let's say he knows that he is wrong and is just falt out lying about not believing in a holocaust. Even if that is true, and he thinks he can gain something worthwhile by doing that, he is still divorced from reality.
     
    #10 FranchiseBlade, Dec 14, 2005
  11. insane man

    insane man Member

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    khatame had the job and disappointed. its not his fault that the guardian council and khamnae and company didn't go along with his agenda...but he was given the opportunity allowed by the irani political system.

    it'll be interesting how rafsanjani's wing responds with this. apparently their majlis hates him too.
     
    #11 insane man, Dec 14, 2005
  12. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    I have a theory that is based on some things I have read recently. Ahmadinejad is trying to provoke Israel to strike Iran's main nuclear reactor. (Vermont Guardian) Iran has a nuclear device already, and the Ayatollah does not know about it. (Washington Post, IRNA) Following the strike, Ahmadinejad will assume military power and unleash his nuclear bomb(s) on Tel Aviv, and strategic points of interest in the region. Hezbollah, an Iranian-sponsered militant/political entity in the region, has been relatively quiet but could resume the conflict at any moment. (Xinhua) NATO nations will be requested as their economic interests will be at stake. (EU) At the same time, Russia and China have made huge investments in Iranian infrastructure and expect a payout in the coming years. The continued propping of the current Iranian economic structure is a must for these nations. (Janes, China Daily). It is in American interests to not provoke, however, the Chinese military due to the economic consequences that will occur. (Forbes)

    Am I a crackpot?, most likely.
     
    #12 Ubiquitin, Dec 14, 2005
  13. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    I don't know. You may be on to something.

    -----------------

    Israel readies forces for strike on nuclear Iran

    Uzi Mahnaimi, Tel Aviv, and Sarah Baxter, Washington

    ISRAEL’S armed forces have been ordered by Ariel Sharon, the prime minister, to be ready by the end of March for possible strikes on secret uranium enrichment sites in Iran, military sources have revealed.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1920074,00.html
     
    #13 mc mark, Dec 14, 2005
  14. Agent94

    Agent94 Member

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    It would be suicide for Iran to nuke Israel.
     
    #14 Agent94, Dec 14, 2005
  15. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Obviously.
     
    #15 Ubiquitin, Dec 14, 2005
  16. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Highly, highly unlikely, even Bin Laden is not suicidal, and these regimes definitely aren't, they're just interested in staying in power and surviving.

    On the other hand, I have to say that I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Iranians already have nukes, and the more I hear the rhetoric coming out of Tehran the more I think that these guys are 'talking tough' because they feel like they have a deterrant, and therefore no one will miss with them. So again, unlikely but not out of the question.

    Whether Adhmedjnai is bluffing or not, or trying to intentionally provoke the Israelis into an attack or not, I think he is not helping the situation at all, regardless of intent.

    But again, I don't think he's just being an 'ass', I think there's a larger strategy behind what he's doing, and if there wasn't the Supreme Council would have reigned him in by now because his rhetoric is just too aggressive and undiplomatic.
     
    #16 tigermission1, Dec 14, 2005
  17. Mr. Brightside

    Mr. Brightside Member

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    What I don't understand is if the President says the Holocaust is a myth, then why does he want Europe to take back Israel? Wouldn't Europe have nothing to do with the Holocaust in the first place- since according to him its a myth?

    Confused?
     
    #17 Mr. Brightside, Dec 14, 2005
  18. mulletman

    mulletman Member

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    but according to this article, israel lacks the capability to fully neutralize iran:

     
    #18 mulletman, Dec 14, 2005
  19. IROC it

    IROC it Member

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    Actually, he is asking Israel to go bomb the crap out of him.
     
    #19 IROC it, Dec 14, 2005
  20. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    Despotic leaders faced with popular dissent use propaganda about threats from third parties to galvanize their populace. This makes the dissenters appear unpatriotic or anti-religious. Inciting the Iraninan people over the injustices of Israel keeps them from focusing their own theocracy, the Us vs. Them syndrome or the us little guys vs. the giant hegemony.

    "They have the bomb but they cannot keep us from having one to defend ourselves if you leave us in charge."

    He's just trying to keep the lid on.
     
    #20 Dubious, Dec 14, 2005
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