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is there any doubt ming must be the offensive focus?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by verse, Oct 25, 2002.

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  1. verse

    verse Member

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    i have spent the last 2-3 years watching the rockets "run an offense" that is truly offensive to the game of basketball. i have watched as they isolated time after time, using injuries and lack of playing time as convenient excuses as to why the offense had to be simplified.

    sure, there are some benefits to what has happened: cat and steve have been developed as "go to" players. cat and steve have been able to develop "go to" shots and plays that while, on the surface, may seem difficult are actually quite simple for them. repitition does that. one problem, though: cat and steve were never developed into being players that can direct a team throughout entire games, nevermind an entire season. they, imo, were developed into being assassins...guys that will put the final nail in the coffin. however, someone has to drive the first 20 or so nails in. that person is yao ming.

    first of all there is no sense, imo, of not running your offense through your best passer. steve, as we all know, is not a great passer. cuttino neither. as it stands our best passer (by a large margin) is yao ming.

    the only way i can see running an offense through anyone other than your best passer is when you have an obvious offensive mismatch type player. the best example of this is hakeem olajuwon. he was never the best passer on his teams, but the offensive mismatch he presented required that he be the focal point. he commanded double teams, so it made sense to simplify the offense. well, guess what? yao ming is that same player...quite naturally the most obvious mismatch on the floor for the rockets.

    so yao is both the best passer and the most obvious mismatch on the court.

    i will say this now: there is no way i ever want to see cuttino mobley and steve francis combining for nearly 40 shots ever again. not while ming's on the court. the only way i want to see that is if the defense chooses to rotate off of them to cover ming (which will rarely happen...why double ming with a small guard...it'll be rice or griff's man for sure).

    steve and cat's attitude of "taking the game over" seems to be one of "let me carry the offense down the stretch". well, that's fine and dandy, but the reality is that they are both small guards. even the best of small guards (allen iverson) would not be able to consistently do that in the western conference. he'd get crushed in time. the west is a big man's conference and the nba is a big man's game. we have, potentially, the next most dominant big man in the game (i'm talking shaq-scope here). we have, presently, one of the most obvious mismatches on the court.

    it's time to use it.


    no more room for little guards playing a big man's game. i want ming to have the ball...first option every time. let HIM dictate the offense! i don't believe any defense is truly scared of cat and steve taking over games down the stretch. not that they aren't capable...it's just that you aren't scared of isolations and jump shots. what you are scared of is a big man that is shooting 10ft and in from the basket, getting your big man in trouble, commanding a double team...and...oh...has the court vision that steve francis dreams of having.


    no more games, rudy...bring the ming and the ming will bring the ring.
     
    #1 verse, Oct 25, 2002
  2. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    absolutely no doubt in my mind. I'd give him a little more time to be the playmaker, but that day will come.

    People suggest moving Francis to 2 and Mobley to the bench, presumably to start Moochie :rolleyes:

    That's not the answer to Francis being a natural scorer and not playmaker. The answer is to develop a team that essentially doesn't have a point guard to use the passing Center as the focal point. Francis and Mobley could have mirror image roles in a high post passing attack, ala Walton. Francis flat out disappointed me last night...and that crap rubs off.

    Francis if you are hitting that 18 footer isolation jumpers, milk it like you did against Stockton last year. If you are not, dude, give up the ball,,,,you will get it back. Yao is not Cato.
     
    #2 heypartner, Oct 25, 2002
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2002
  3. Lobo

    Lobo Member

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    verse, you remind of the poet e.e. cummings - no capital letters in your posts.

    Anyways, I'm trying very hard not to get overly optimistic about Ming's capabilities, but after watching a portion of last night's game, it's hard not to agree with everything you just said.

    Especially after considering all the factors, like jet lag, limited practice, etc., he just looks very fluid out there to me. After he gets his legs under him, gets used to the pace, learns the plays, etc., he seems to have all the potential in the world.

    GO MING!!
     
    #3 Lobo, Oct 25, 2002
  4. codell

    codell Member

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    I dont know about you guys, but when I was watching the game last night and Ming was doing well, I kept wanting the Rockets to try and run more offensive sets through him. I kept having flashbacks to the days where we ran the offense through Hakeem.
     
    #4 codell, Oct 25, 2002
  5. Rockets2K

    Rockets2K Clutch Crew

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    well done verse..
    I absolutely agree..

    Ming is showing the capabilities that will in time make it inexcusable to not run the O thru him. Feed it to Ming, let him make the decision whether to make his move or hit the open man with the bullet pass...That is the way we go to the playoffs..

    I figure that by the 3rd week of the season, he will be adapted to the team and to what he can get away with in this league. If RT hasn't drilled this necessity into the team by then, I will be concerned.
     
    #5 Rockets2K, Oct 25, 2002
  6. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    watching Francis get offered a 24 High pick from Yao and then never really run his man into the pick just infuriates me. He continues to not really even use the pick. Francis, they will be unable to trap that pick now with Yao rolling to the basket...use the damn pick. That means driving your man into Yao. Quit lazily hopping around the pick.
     
    #6 heypartner, Oct 25, 2002
  7. verse

    verse Member

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    thanks...

    my other concern (i hope it is unfounded) is a matter of ego. i sincerely hope that francis and cuttino can put winning as priority number one and not individual status. as soon as the offense starts running through ming, the rockets will be widely known as ming's team. and steve/cat will have to take a back seat. they will have to defer.

    i hope they can do that. if so, we can be the best in the league. i seriously believe that. not even shaq will be covering ming one on one. it doesn't make logical sense to. and you can't put a power forward on ming...that's suicide.

    rudy has one hell of a challenge ahead: make ming the man on the team. i'm not talking by midseason. i'm talking by the second month of the season. by then he'll know the sets, know the personnel, and have a physical feel for the defense. mentally, well, he'll have to make that adjustment on the fly. but rudy has to salve the egos on the team that may have a problem deferring to the big rook from china.
     
    #7 verse, Oct 25, 2002
  8. verse

    verse Member

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    i do not mean this in a bashing sort of way:


    francis is a purebred scorer. he understands beating his man one on one due to incredible athletic ability. he does not understand making the easiest play for the team. that is his instinct. doing something other than that goes against the very nature of who he is.
     
    #8 verse, Oct 25, 2002
  9. rhester

    rhester Member

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    Steve Francis is a great player but we will not win a championship until he stops trying to prove it.

    If we use Yao Ming properly Steve will get far more pub
    from the NBA finals than from beating someone on the ISO
     
    #9 rhester, Oct 25, 2002
  10. ricerocket

    ricerocket Member

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    Several things led to this happening last night:

    1) Allen Iverson. Steve wanted badly to show he could out Iverson him. I think it went to his head and he overdid it. But I also think Rudy was allowing this, he was running Cat on the point sometimes and letting Steve play 2 with AI. I don't think this would have occurred to the extent it did in the regular season.

    2) Cat is going against his hometown team. Of course that means gunning and showboating. Again, in the regular season I don't think Rudy lets Steve and Cat loose like that.

    3) Who else was available for offense. Really only Rice, and to an extent EG, were known offensive commodities in the rotation. Not to say Yao Ming, Boki, Cato, Hawkins, Tito, Collier et al can't score, but it would have been nice to have MT, KT, Mooch and TMo. Yao is a known scorer but he's fresh off the boat, and still getting his land legs... :D
     
    #10 ricerocket, Oct 25, 2002
  11. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    RiceRocket,

    Those are excuses.

    None will be accepted, both Cat and Francis have been in the league long enough to know how to win.

    Francis is a lot like Iverson....but more mellow. If Allen Iverson can get more assists then our entire team, there is something wrong with either the COACHING, or the PLAYERS.

    DaDakota
     
    #11 DaDakota, Oct 25, 2002
  12. Texas Stoke

    Texas Stoke Member

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    Couldn't agree with you more, verse. There really is no other option. Ming has 6 to 7 inches on most centers in the league, and his shot seems damn near automatic. Rudy needs to make sure Steve and Mobley understand that they must exploit that matchup untill teams are forced to double and even triple team Ming, which they will. Once this happens Francis and Mobley can put the games away and make them pay for doubling Ming.
     
    #12 Texas Stoke, Oct 25, 2002
  13. dutchbut

    dutchbut Member

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    who dont feel like your about to score with the prom queen.
     
    #13 dutchbut, Oct 25, 2002
  14. heech

    heech Member

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    All well said.

    Ming hasn't shown a tendency to force up shots... neither in the international game, nor in the past week. If the defense adjusts to check him, he'll put the ball in the hand of someone else.

    The same has NEVER been true of Francis/Cat.

    It's a cliche/obvious thing to say, but: Stevie, that little shake + long-range jumper you wanna shoot off of iso can be had at *ANY POINT* in the possession. Give the ball to Yao and see if he can back down his man and get a high-% shot. If he can't, you'll always have the chance to put up your shot LATER in the possession.

    Anyone else think it's amazing that a week into Yao's tenure, we're talking about running the O through him?
     
    #14 heech, Oct 25, 2002
  15. verse

    verse Member

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    1) if steve is trying to "out-iverson" AI - during the course of this season - he needs to remove his head from his ass. this is not about individualism. this is about doing what's best for the team. and if he wanted to "out-iversn" AI he could have tried matching iverson's assist numbers last night. as for it being the preseason, that's a terrible excuse. the preseason is used for training...training for the regular season. why practice what you won't use? practice what will be necessary to win in the regular season.

    2) i don't give a damn where cat's from. if he's playing poorly, it's rudy's job to make changes - either in the offensive strategy or in the players on the court.

    3) you asked who else was available? well, you're missing my point then. my point is that ming must become the focal point - OPTION #1. steve and cuttino are secondary options. obviously ming had his legs last night. good enough to abuse those power forwards that parade as centers in the eastern conference.
     
    #15 verse, Oct 25, 2002
  16. ricerocket

    ricerocket Member

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    Excuses? Excuse me, they are observations of what happened. Offensive rebounding by the Sixers deep sixed that game. It's a shame Rudy didn't force Cat to dish it to that stud PF mask wearing "Jason" the 76 killing Collier for the win. :rolleyes: How about force it into that other guy that's FOB China?

    It's preseason, they did try to win, but you can't give up that many second and third shots on the offensive end and expect to beat a team like the 76'ers, even in preseason. Take a deep breath... they're record is 0-0 right now and Moochie has been cleared to play... ;) :p
     
    #16 ricerocket, Oct 25, 2002
  17. codell

    codell Member

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    Just a minor point here ....when Philly moved Iverson from the 1 to the 2, Philly made it to the finals. Would the same work with Francis?
     
    #17 codell, Oct 25, 2002
  18. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Yao Ming had a 9 inch advantage on Long.

    <h6>9 inches</h6>
    <h5>9 inches</h5>
    <h4>9 inches</h4>
    <h3>9 inches</h3>
    <h2>9 inches</h2>
    <h1>9 inches</h1>

    The day Francis is guarded by a 5'6 player, he can be the focal point.

    imo, this is non negotiable, given Yao's passing ability. There is no Philly or AI excuse. You must change your game Francis.

    Francis, Be Part of Something

    <h6>BIG</h6>
    <h5>BIG</h5>
    <h4>BIG</h4>
    <h3>BIG</h3>
    <h2>BIG</h2>
    <h1>BIG</h1>
     
    #18 heypartner, Oct 25, 2002
  19. verse

    verse Member

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    no. what purpose would that serve? bring in a pure point guard (moochie, i guess) to run the offense? ming is the MUCH MORE logical choice to "run the offense".

    as long as ming runs the O, you can have 2-3 shooting guards on the court with him.
     
    #19 verse, Oct 25, 2002
  20. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Member

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    One of the smartest posts I have read in a while. Not many words, but to the point.
     
    #20 AroundTheWorld, Oct 25, 2002
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